When I first began researching how we can know the Bible is true, one proof that kept cropping up was that the Bible teaches that the earth hangs on nothing:
He… hangeth the earth upon nothing.
— Job 26:7
It’s assumed by believers that Job could not have known this, and that God — with his infinite understanding of the Universe — inspired Job’s words.
But is this quote proof of divine inspiration? I have a couple of reasons for doubting this evidence.
Firstly, the odds of just guessing this fact correctly are pretty good, since either the earth hangs on something, or it does not. You have one chance in two of guessing correctly.
And the odds are even better when we consider that Job could observe that:
1) There was nothing visibly tethering the earth to the sky,
2) The sun and moon did not hang on anything, and
3) The sun appeared to go down in the West and rise in the East, and nothing impeded its path (suggesting there was nothing underneath the earth, just as there was nothing under the sun or the moon).
Given this, such a revelation isn’t impossible or even unreasonable.
Secondly, if it turned out the the earth wasn’t floating, but was supported in some way, there are numerous verses could’ve been used to suggest that God always knew that the earth was supported:
He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble.
— Job 9:6Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? … Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?
— Job 38:4-6The pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.
— 1 Samuel 2:8“When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm.
— Psalm 75:3
Since there are only two possibilities (floating or supported), and both are suggested in the Bible, the Bible has a 100% chance of getting this fact correct (so long as we play down the losing answer).
With the benefit of hindsight (and a little bias), today’s believer can now assert that all the verses about pillars must be metaphorical, while the single verse about hanging on nothing must be interpreted literally.
But imagine what would’ve happened if we’d discovered the exact opposite were true, that the earth was supported in some way. It would be just as easy for believers to say, “God clearly knew the earth was supported! That is why he mentions it multiple times! And it ‘hangs on nothing,’ because it is supported from below!”
Either way, God gets it right.
Conclusion
Does Job 26:7 offer proof of divine inspiration? Even if the Bible made no mention of pillars (which it does), and there existed no clues as to what the truth may be (which there are), the probability of simply guessing this fact would be very good, just one in two — a proverbial coin toss.
But if I asked you to believe that I was God, and the evidence I provided was my ability to accurately predict a coin toss, would you believe me? Probably not. And certainly not if I predicted, “The result will be heads… though I’ve also got a strong feeling about tails.”
500 Questions about God & Christianity 
I’m enjoying your posts! (Or should I say, pillars?)
Keep ’em coming. 😀
Thanks. 15 down, 485 to go.
I think u misinterpreted the word.
Then how come thee famous Greeks believed flat in 18 century? Pillars could be the force acting as gravity; we got a law from theist Newton, working, but still gravity is not understood= mystery.
Eratosthenese had a fairly accurate estimate of the diameter of the Earth around 200 BCE. The world was known to be round before that.
No one with a significant education believed the world was flat in the 18th century, or even the 15th (Columbus was only remarkable because he was using an estimate for the diameter that was way to small. If the Americas hadn’t been there, his crews would have died from lack of water long before he reached Asia).
And no, we don’t perfectly understand gravity, but it does not resemble a pillar. Or a foundation.
DNA is a foundation but we cant see it with our eyes or understand it. It is command from the creator. The Word.
you brought an incridible animal no one hass ever answer. God bless you so much
Excellent comparison! Gravity is unknown and is the pillar that holds all things together in this universe, including the earth. The scriptures are all correct as they speak of different aspects of the creation. Amazing stuff. He hangs the earth upon what we cannot see yet what we cannot see (gravity) is the very thing that upholds it. Blessings. Tom
If you think of space-time continuum, pillars would be very appropriate.
foundations like pillars are usually undergrounsd like pile driven pillars
gravity does not excist it is density and bouyancy that keeps everything in place
Proof America has been lied to again: Space travels the biggest hoax a must watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIy8ZqqK5G8&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534&feature=player_detailpage
And our cold war opponents, and everyone around the globe who had a telescope was in on the hoax? And the laser reflectors on the moon that anyone can bounce a decently powerful laser off of? Those just magically appeared, I guess.
Space travel the biggest hoax: A funny thing happened on the way to the moon.?
The only way to have the earth in the north hang uppon nothing is to take it literally… He inscribed (carved or “drew a line”) a circle into a quare box, then he put that box on pillars… now the north (which is the center) hangs on nothing… footstool anyone? the bible only makes sense if you take it literally, just like the primitive cultures to which it was written to would understand it…! All Observable Scientific Evidence suggest its flat, only the Military of the world says its a ball. Yes the pictures of earth from space are Composites(photoshoped) (Per NASA).
only primitives who believe they is evolved from monkeys have trouble accepting God is vastly more creative that they.
any sailor who sailed out to sea a few hours after another sailor sailed would come to the inescapable conclusion that the earth must be round.
monkeys cannot do the necessary visualisation.
Agreed. I learned about the flat earth in January 2017. It took me a month or so of deep research but now I am convinced that we were lied to. The earth is flat. The biggest proof is that, you cannot stand on a ball and walk all over it nor can water stick to a ball. The other biggest proof is that Nasa is a liar and in their 2015 earth image they have the word “Sex” because they work with Disney. All images we have seen are fake/CGI/computer made/camera trickery.
Hello Ramseykal,
I can understand why some religious believers would be motivated to believe the earth is flat (because it better aligns with what the Bible teaches, and helps to reinforce their faith), but I fail to see the motive for a global and historical conspiracy to make everyone think the earth is round.
Over 2000 years ago, Eratosthenes successfully measured the circumference of the earth after he noticed the angle of the sun changes depending on what city you are in. What does everyone from Eratosthenes to NASA have to gain by perpetrating a spherical myth? What does every nation, every scientist, and every astronaut have to gain by continuing to perpetrate this myth? Or are they all just too stupid to figure out the earth is flat?
To answer your question, water doesn’t stick to a ball, because a ball has very little mass and almost no gravitational pull, especially compared to the earth. Just as the earth pulls you to its surface (until you get far enough away), it also pulls water to its surface. But if you make that ball large enough (and it pulled you to its surface), you COULD walk around it.
I commend you on your skepticism, and your willingness to challenge the majority on their thinking (that’s how many Christians become atheists). But you have to carefully consider all sides of an argument when opinions are evenly split. Especially when only a small minority believe something highly controversial.
Take care,
500Q
The reason for the deception? “Outer space” extraterrestrials revealing themselves and claiming we were “seeded” long ago, coming back to aid us in our spiritual evolution
(actually demons or fallen angels), teaching false doctrines, and paving the way for the Antichrist (great miracles and signs in the SKY). Many people, especially those involved in the New Age movement, already firmly believe in this scenario.
Jesus warned that the end-time deception would be so compelling
that even “the elect” would be at risk. Even now, NASA is making frequent pronouncements about the possibility of life on Mars, and of discoveries of habitable planets in the “Universe”.
There are many good videos available on the subject of “The Alien Deception” which cover this subject in more detail. Satan has been patiently unfolding this fraud over many centuries. This seems to be the best explanation that I have come across. (This might also account for the increase in UFO sightings in recent decades.) I believe that the Holy Spirit is showing many Christians the widespread underpinnings of this enormous and deadly scheme.
The Bible clearly indicates that spiritual principalities and powers DO
have an influence on the human leaders of the earth, which may indicate some degree of collusion in the deception (Psalm 2 and many other Scriptures seem to indicate this).
Please look into it. God bless!
If the moon is round, and the sun is round, and all the other stars are round, and they are all “up there” for us to observe, why would the Earth not be round as well? If we see the moon as round from where we are standing, what makes you think that we would see our planet as flat if we were standing on the moon?
If you believe that the Earth is flat, positioned on pillars, then what about the moon, the sun, and all the other stars? Are THOSE hanging upon nothing? Or are they just art pieces?
The moon orbits the Earth, and also rotates on its axis, both of which take around 27 days, which is why it appears to be keeping still in the “sky”. But it DOES rotate, like a ball, and this is evident because of the moon phases; the four main phases occur about a week apart, and during these four weeks we see the moon change in appearance, from full moon to half moon and back again. If the Earth was flat, we would expect to actually SEE the moon move around us, but we don’t, because EARTH is also round! Furthermore, if the moon rotated around a flat Earth (and what would be the point of that?), we would see the full moon at all times, but again, we don’t, because we live on a round planet.
This is such basic logic I bet even my four-year-old niece would be able to understand it.
Further to this, there is the relationship between the Earth and the sun. If Earth were flat, the sunlight would fall in the exact same way upon the world’s surface; when “switched on” it would be daytime all over the world, and when “switched off” we would all have nighttime at the same time as well. Yet we know that this is not the case.
If you shine a light on a plate, the light will always stay more or less the same, even if the plate rotates; but if you point the light towards a rotating ball, the light will always shine on only one side of it at a time.
Moreover, there is the matter of seasons. How would we have seasonal changes if the Earth were flat? The reality is that our round planet, with the two poles as the opposite ends of its axis, is tilted 23.5 degrees to the side, so when it makes its way around the sun both sides of the equator will at some point be further away from our source of light and heat than the other one. This is why we have winter and summer. Between those two seasons we have what we call spring and autumn, when both sides are approaching either the side where their part of the Earth is pointing away from or towards the sun. Temperatures will be similar during the two transitional seasons, but it will either get gradually warmer or colder depending on which of the extremes you are approaching.
In my country you can even travel above what is known as the arctic circle, which is where the two seasonal opposites are at their most extreme; you’ll have two months of 24/7 daylight, and then you will have two months of no daylight whatsoever. This is obviously the result of being situated at the top of the axis; the amount of daylight or darkness you experience during the summer and the winter is all in relation to how close you are to the pole on your side of the equator. Even in my town, which is all the way down south in Norway, we only have nighttime between midnight and 4am at the “height” of summer, and only daylight between 9am and 3pm when winter is at its darkest. This is why people up north often feel depressed during the winter months – the effect of having limited “access” to sunlight.
This process is easy to recreate if you pick up a ball, put a stick trough the middle of it, and then tilt it 23.5 degrees before rotating it around a light source. If you want to create a similar effect onto a plate, you’d have to turn it into an artistic performance.
And finally: We see the sun “rise” on one side and “set” on the other; if you believe the Earth is flat, where does the sun go after it sets, and how does it get back to the opposite side? Does it travel underneath the pillars? Or does God lift it up and move it back, somehow without us noticing it? Tell me, how does this magic occur?
Hi Alex
Please could you explain in more detail what you mean ?
Do you mean a circle (Flat plane) or a sphere in a square box (or cube) ?
What do you mean by the north being the centre ?
I am very interested to know your theory but don’t understand your explination.
Thank you.
Scott
https://youtu.be/Tr1-WRrhgtg We live on an oblate spheroid earth shaped planet called earth, but he has firmly planted everything on the earth so that it cannot move (gravity for instance: everything is forced down), he has made everything beautiful in its time, but the earth right now is presently cursed (God cursed the ground) because of man’s sin (consequence); the penalty for sin is death and so far every human that has ever lived (except for Jesus, he gave his life freely: demonstrating he is God because of his love for us and he sits at the right hand of God, alive forevermore: 500 or more witnesses saw him then and he arose from the dead on that Saturday three nights and three days after he arose and conquered death, hell, and the grave (also, he was risen before that Sunday the Bible records)); every one dies physically, that is: every human being.
The earth is standing on pilars
Where were you when I made the foundations of the earth…
I’ll can keep a few coming for you. Zechariah 14:4 The Second Advent of Christ and the literal ingredients geographical and geological for His return. The Rift Valley Fault line and the splitting of the Mount of Olives from East to West as predicted. The Rift runs from south to north so if the Mount of Oives does go, when He returns, it would indeed split from east to west and water will also flow form under Jerusalem toward the Dead Sea and there would be a resurgence of all marine life. Under Jerusalem are massive conduits of fresh water and in 2011 it was discovered that fresh water vents a pouring into the Dead Sea. Water springs are also appearing around the Dead Sea with the appearing of fish… There is much more on this topic, much more.
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Wow dude, you need to take a course on hermeneutics, your understanding of texts in their context is so misguided. firstly, you cannot take one scripture like Job 9:6 and say boom theres proof, pillars! read the entire of Job 9…thats why it is there. Try and understand the writers tone and to what degree something is metaphorical or literal. I understand clearly the whole purpose is to bash Christianity, but try a little to be intellectual and unbias in your interpretation. Otherwise your goal of getting people against the bible is merely just going to fuel the already anti-biblical people, and not any sceptics. Also, the earth hangs upon nothing, please explain how that can be metaphorical? how many times have writers in the bible expressed the earth in a metaphorical way, especially like that. 1 Samuel 2:8, again taking one piece of writing and ignoring the context completely. “But imagine if tomorrow we discovered that the earth actually was set on pillars! Wouldn’t Christians immediately say the exact opposite?” – no, because then Job would not have written that. Come now…
Hi Liam, thanks for the criticism… I think. 🙂
I hear you saying that one must read everything in context to understand it, and have a proper understanding of hermenuetics to do so. So… I’m hoping you didn’t come to your conclusions about my purpose, goal, and bias without reading all of my posts in their proper context. That’s why they’re there.
And come now… surely you realize that one of the oldest “tricks” of religion is to accuse the other guy of misinterpreting scripture. Even if we give a Catholic, a Protestant, and a Jew a degree in hermenuetics, they’d STILL disagree about what the Bible says. The Christians and Jews have been battling over “proper hermenuetics” for thousands of years, and it’s gotten us nowhere.
The point of question #15 is to say that many Christians will bring up Job 26:7 and say “Boom! There’s proof that God understands science and wrote the Bible!” When, at best, it’s a mediocre observation, which is possibly in contrast with the more plentiful suggestions that the earth is on some kind of foundation (other than liquid rock).
So sure, MAYBE God inspired the Bible. And MAYBE He knew full well that the earth goes around the sun and is filled with liquid rock, but INSTEAD He chose to speak about metaphoric pillars.
Or… MAYBE God is behind another religion, and is choosing to speak metaphorically about how the earth rests on a turtle… or a whale… or four elephants. Men too can make metaphors, but GOD should know the truth, so it’s a shame if He’s chosen to use the same stupid metaphors that men do, especially when He knows the truth and could establish His supremacy by sharing a few scientific insights.
Or… MAYBE… the Bible is written by humans, the same humans that made up all the other interesting stories.
Merry Christmas 🙂
“And come now… surely you realize that one of the oldest “tricks” of religion is to accuse the other guy of misinterpreting scripture. Even if we give a Catholic, a Protestant, and a Jew a degree in hermenuetics, they’d STILL disagree about what the Bible says. The Christians and Jews have been battling over “proper hermenuetics” for thousands of years, and it’s gotten us nowhere.”
-Yes, I agree, and what happened when Jesus Christ, He completed the law and the prophesies regarding the scriptures where the the Scribes had totally different interpretations. It totally depends on whether you have adopted a post-modern view or not, whether you believe in absolute truth or not. Obviously you can see I do believe in absolute truth, not in a doctrine or a word, but in Christ as a person, outside of human influence much like your deliberations. So using other religions reasons as to support disagreeing on interpretation of scripture doesn’t apply because it wont change the fundamentals of knowing Christ which fulfils all.
“Men too can make metaphors, but GOD should know the truth, so it’s a shame if He’s chosen to use the same stupid metaphors that men do, especially when He knows the truth and could establish His supremacy by sharing a few scientific insights.”
– same stupid metaphors? same as what? have you done any research regarding the historical accuracy and integrity of the bibles old and new testament, perhaps David Pawson’s book “new evidence that demands a verdict” would interest you. And comparing the impact that metaphors or scientific insights can have is extremely debatable. We both know facts dont speak for themselves, interpretation is still needed. If that were not the case, we would not have this fiasco of scientists seeing the same piece of evidence and somehow having conclusions point to a creator and a cosmic accident.
“Or… MAYBE… the Bible is written by humans, the same humans that made up all the other interesting stories.
– perhaps, much like your views right? and mine? Thats the problem of adopting a sceptic outlook, nothing is sufficient evidence except that which confirms your preconceived notion, which I believe you have made evident in your writing.
I respect your sincere response, much appreciated 🙂 thanks for the blessings, excuse my extremely late reply 🙂
All the best
He just said that the metaphor of the pillar of the earth, looks much like the ‘metaphor’ other false religions use, such as the earth being supported by a turtle.
“With the benefit of hindsight, it’s all too easy for believers to assert that the verses about pillars are metaphors, and the verse about hanging on nothing should be taken literally”
I think you are not being totally honest in your write up. Why would you think that believers will view the pillars as metaphors? Is there a reason why it could not be viewed or taken literally?
Also, regarding on the issue of the earth hanging on something or nothing; of all the scientifically variable statements made in the book of Job, you tactically pick out one and claim there is a 50/50 chance of getting it right, therefore, it was a good guess on the part of Job. What about other statements? In Job 9 vs 8 ” which alone spreadeth out the heaven…..,” the stretching of the heavens as later discovered by Edwin Hubble? Is this also a guess? Talking about the attractive force of matter to other matter, i.e gravity, Job 38 vs 38 ” when the dust groweth into hardness and the clods cleave fast together?” did he guess this also?
There are other statements in the bible that has been confirmed scientifically. Regarging curved space read psalm 18 vs 9 “He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness [was] under his feet.”
This is just a few, please next time try and consider most statements pertaining to your topic before wrting. Don’t just pick one that suit your purpose.
How could it be literal? We know the sky does not stand up by pillars….
I don’t understand your reply, I mean, did you even read the article? It wasn’t a “good guess” by Job, the odds favored that the Earth hanged on nothing. “Such a revelation isn’t impossible or even improbable.”
It is a real “stretch” to say Job 9:8 is talking about an expanding universe. Why not just come out and say it instead of being cryptic? What this passage is describing is the stretching of the dome-shaped firmament over the earth with no supports in the middle. To the ancient Hebrews, the earth was unattached to the center of the dome (i.e., the earth hung on nothing) just like the floor of a building is unattached to the center of a dome that covers it.
There is no Bible commentator, even the most conservative, that believes Job 38:38 is referencing gravity in this verse. “When the dust groweth into hardness – Margin, “is poured, or, is turned into mire.” The words used here relate often to metals, and to the act of pouring them out when fused, for the purpose of casting. The proper idea here is, “when the dust flows into a molten mass;” that is, when wet with rain it flows together and becomes hard. The sense is, that the rain operates on the clay as heat does on metals, and that when it is dissolved it flows together and thus becomes a solid mass. The object is to compare the effect of rain with the usual effect in casting metals.
And the clods cleave fast together – That is, they are run together by the rain. They form one mass of the same consistency, and then are baked hard by the sun.”
Same deal with your Psalm 18:9 interpretation. You are on the fringe of the fringe with this interpretation. NO actual scholar believes this. He bowed the heavens — By producing thick and dark clouds, by which the heavens seemed to come down to the earth; and came down — Not by change of place, but by the manifestation of his presence and power on my behalf. In other words, he, as it were, made the heavens bend under him, when he descended to take vengeance on his and my enemies. He bowed the heavens also – He seemed to bend down the heavens – to bring them nearer to the earth.
There are no extraordinary scientific statements in the Bible when scrutinized. This is just a few examples of how you have cherry picked scripture to suit your illogical interpretations, please next time try and consider most statements pertaining to your topic before writing. Don’t just pick one that suit your purpose.
You said “we know the sky doesn’t stand up by pillars…” I wonder how you would asert such a statement. Have you been able to see the earth from space without looking at a picture taken by an astronaut or Hubble telescope? Think about your basis for reasoning. Would you agree that you might be making or siding with claims or information that you honestly don’t know about, except from what you’ve heard and seen provided by someone else (most of whom you may not know)? The only thing is that you have trusted the source (s). If not, why wouldn’t there be any doubt in your mind that what you’ve believed could be a lie? Is it that you’ve given your trust so blindly? Doesn’t that open you to being lied to/deceived?
If you ask me, I think some reservation is needed in life where what we believe is concerned, especially when it comes from other humans. Even seeing is not always believing, because we can be fooled by our own perspective. I’m just saying, if you’ll be honest, what I’ve said is at least worth thinking about.
Chao.
If there were pillars someone would have found them by now, and other people who go see it and confirm it exists and that’s how knowledge is spread.
Why would someone have found them by now they lied about the moon and they don’t ever talk about exploration in the Antarctic other then oil so we have no clue what’s really going on- if the bible is metaphorical or allegorical then it’s all bull shit- the bible can only be truth of not its a lie – and if that’s so then you people get ready for shit storm coming cause nothing will save you
“How could it be literal? We know the sky does not stand up by pillars….”
Well Gregory, our understanding of the universe keeps changing as we know more, isnt it? Our sense of things changes the more knowledge we have of them. I still maintain my grounds that the pillars holding the earth could be viewed literally. Lets take for example the Japanese Maglev train that uses magnetic force to levitate. I believe that some crazy nut genius can use the same technology to build a levitating house or building. This cant be difficult from this point on. If you think it to be impossible just close you eyes and think of the train as a house or building by taking off the magnetic propulsion attached to the train. If you can do this, you will see that you have a levitating house. The next argument will be if this house has a pillar? Now, peoples opinion of what a pillar is might be test here. Since pillars are meant to provide support for other structure one might view the magnetic force as a literal pillars providing support for this building. I suppose you Gregory will view this pillar as metaphorical pillar.
“I don’t understand your reply, I mean, did you even read the article? It wasn’t a “good guess” by Job, the odds favored that the Earth hanged on nothing. “Such a revelation isn’t impossible or even improbable.”
I read the article alright. Please what are these odds? And you are confident that people during Jobs time have knowledge of these odds to make an informed decision about the universe.
“It is a real “stretch” to say Job 9:8 is talking about an expanding universe. Why not just come out and say it instead of being cryptic? What this passage is describing is the stretching of the dome-shaped firmament over the earth with no supports in the middle”
Of course, am talking about the expanding universe, I prefer to use stretching rather than expanding. This is because using expansion gives the notion that something could be added to what is expanding to make it bigger. But stretching gives no room for addition. I know you see my point. For example, a house can be expanded by adding more rooms. But it can’t be stretched to create more rooms. Stretching fits the bills of what hubble saw when he looked through the telescope. As it is the stretching of the existing space with no additional space.
And, Job 9 vs 8, is talking about expanding and stretching universe. Job 9 vs 8, “which alone spreadeth out the heaven…..,” unless u are willing to tell me that heaven is not the same as space.
Whilst Job 37 vs 18 is talking about the dome-shaped firmament you mentioned above. According to Job 37 vs 18, “Canst thou with him spread out the sky which is as strong as molten mirror” I think you have got both confused.
“Same deal with your Psalm 18:9 interpretation. You are on the fringe of the fringe with this interpretation. NO actual scholar believes this. He bowed the heavens —”
I dont get your point here, is it that they dont believe that the word “He bowed the heavens” is not in that verse. Or that God can not bend the heavens. Or that thats is not the meaning? It is no news that space is bowed. So what are you talking about.
“How could it be literal? We know the sky does not stand up by pillars….”
Well Garbonzo, our understanding of the universe keeps changing as we know more, isnt it? Our sense of things changes the more knowledge we have of them. I still maintain my grounds that the pillars holding the earth could be viewed literally. Lets take for example the Japanese Maglev train that uses magnetic force to levitate. I believe that some crazy nut genius can use the same technology to build a levitating house or building. This cant be difficult from this point on. If you think it to be impossible just close you eyes and think of the train as a house or building by taking off the magnetic propulsion attached to the train. If you can do this, you will see that you have a levitating house. The next argument will be if this house has a pillar? Now, peoples opinion of what a pillar is might be test here. Since pillars are meant to provide support for other structure one might view the magnetic force as a literal pillars providing support for this building. I suppose you Gregory will view this pillar as metaphorical pillar.
“I don’t understand your reply, I mean, did you even read the article? It wasn’t a “good guess” by Job, the odds favored that the Earth hanged on nothing. “Such a revelation isn’t impossible or even improbable.”
I read the article alright. Please what are these odds? And you are confident that people during Jobs time have knowledge of these odds to make an informed decision about the universe.
“It is a real “stretch” to say Job 9:8 is talking about an expanding universe. Why not just come out and say it instead of being cryptic? What this passage is describing is the stretching of the dome-shaped firmament over the earth with no supports in the middle”
Of course, am talking about the expanding universe, I prefer to use stretching rather than expanding. This is because using expansion gives the notion that something could be added to what is expanding to make it bigger. But stretching gives no room for addition. I know you see my point. For example, a house can be expanded by adding more rooms. But it can’t be stretched to create more rooms. Stretching fits the bills of what hubble saw when he looked through the telescope. As it is the stretching of the existing space with no additional space.
And, Job 9 vs 8, is talking about expanding and stretching universe. Job 9 vs 8, “which alone spreadeth out the heaven…..,” unless u are willing to tell me that heaven is not the same as space.
Whilst Job 37 vs 18 is talking about the dome-shaped firmament you mentioned above. According to Job 37 vs 18, “Canst thou with him spread out the sky which is as strong as molten mirror” I think you have got both confused.
“Same deal with your Psalm 18:9 interpretation. You are on the fringe of the fringe with this interpretation. NO actual scholar believes this. He bowed the heavens —”
I dont get your point here, is it that they dont believe that the word “He bowed the heavens” is not in that verse. Or that God can not bend the heavens. Or that thats is not the meaning? It is no news that space is bowed. So what are you talking about.
Again, you must not have read the article, it was a 50/50 shot Job got it right. If I land on heads, will you proclaim it was impossible or even improbable? If you believe Job believed in a dome-like firmament then why are we debating this?
No scholar believes that is the meaning.
“Again, you must not have read the article, it was a 50/50 shot Job got it right. If I land on heads, will you proclaim it was impossible or even improbable? If you believe Job believed in a dome-like firmament then why are we debating this?
No scholar believes that is the meaning”
Garbonzo, you kept on saying that I have not read the article. Is it not the bloody article above these comments? Whats too hard to read or understand in that article? I have written and addressed your misconceptions about the verses of the bible you quoted in your previous comment. You have nothing meaningful to say than to believe that job was lucky and there is a 50/50 chance. Of course, almost everything can be reduce to probability. Does that mean we cant make informed decision or have knowledge of something to make accurate decisions without relying on the odds of it happening. Hubble was able to know that the universe is expanding not by the odds or probability but by real knowledge he got through dedicated observations of the universe. So whats the probability of him getting it right? You can see that using probability here makes no sense. Same with job, the knowledge he got of the universe was communicated to him by God. I have already told you thats not the only scientific variable statement made by job or in the bible.
Regarding the statement “there are no extraordinary scientific statements in the Bible when scrutinized” you might want to check out the Book of ROMANS Chapter 8 verses 19-22. It agrees with the 2nd law of thermodyamics which speaks of the Increase of entropy or in simple terms all systems degrade.
I’ll take up that challenge. 🙂
“18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.”
Both the first and last verse deal with the suffering and redemption of the human body. The human body is also the “creation” that suffers, waits in eager expectation, is subjected to frustration, and will be freed from the bondage of decay (death), and brought into freedom and glory. I think you are confusing “creation” with the Universe, which would not be the case considering the context.
The word “creation” is better translated elsewhere, such as in the KJV:
“19 For the earnest expectation of the CREATURE waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the CREATURE was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope…”
Have a good one,
500Q
Job 26:7
Job 36:27
These are actually in need of being read together, as one seems to explain gravity, while the other absolutely explains the water cycle (The water cycle is explained briefly in other scripture as well, such as Ecc 1:6-7). The Bible also goes into detail about historical happenings, such as accurately prophesying about the reign of King Cyrus, the first King of Persia (Ezra 1:1-3) and his exploits in subduing every nation he comes across (Isaiah 45:1-3, 13) and freeing God’s people. The Book of Isaiah (8th Century BC) was written about 170 years before the birth of Cyrus (between 600 BC – 576 BC). Scientific radiocarbon dating proves this, meaning the bible accurately proved all of Cyrus the Great’s exploits as King leading up to his freeing the Israelites & proclaiming that they should be allowed to rebuild their temple in Jerusalem. There’s plenty more to prove that science and history prove the bible is fact. However, for the sake of time, these few verses above were given. I hope this clears some things up! God bless you!
Thanks Derek.
Whenever I look critically into these kinds of claims, they ALWAYS unravel.
Let’s take the water cycle, for example. As the author of Ecc. observed, rain falls and flows into the sea, yet it never fills up. Why? It cannot be NEW water, or else it would become more and more full.
And surely someone, at some point, left a cup of water outside, and observed it gradually disappearing. Or perhaps they heated up water for cooking, and observed steam rising up and the water in the pot disappearing.
So they observed water disappearing, water rising and disappearing, and water falling back down, and returining to the sea, with no new water being added. Its an observation that’s not beyond human comprehention, and later humans used the same observations to draw more complete conclusions about the water cycle.
It just so happens that Dr. Maurice Bucaille and other Muslims (e.g. http://www.islamweb.net/en/article/134578/) ALSO try to claim the Quran describes things such as the water cycle (as well as many other things). So honestly, if these are the ONLY reasons for your belief, then I can give you just as many reasons to believe in the Quran.
Depending on what religion you’re from, it’s easy to read different things into a religious text (just as Mormons read predictions of the Mormon church into Biblical text, and Muslims read predictions of Islam into Biblical text). But are they proof of anything? Only if you’re already a believer.
500Q
You need to read the Vedas..from india…there are 100s of facts written about the universe …earth..nature..human body….so on so forth….but we really fail to realise that human beings who are capable of building this world the way it is ..I mean cell phones, satellites, cures to deseases,electicity, cars, spaceships, nuclear weapons, jet planes, internet, robots, television, computers…the list wont end…..point is humans can do all this but cant write a religious text with some simple “coincidentally true” facts in it………every religion is a copy of one another…you compare the holy books …they are all same in the end….bible…qoran…vedas …they all have some points and profecies which have bin scientifically proven to be true today…..but still none of them gives you real logical answers ……god could have made this world with just one religion for us to follow but for some reason he did not…..and he allowed so many religions to prevail……or may be every religion is man made and man made them to control other people …..
You mean like using Isaiah 7:14 as a prophecy for Jesus. The story is from over 800 years BC about King Ahaz concerned about an eminent attack by two armies and as particular of the times he consults his soothsayer/Prophet (you guys read it for yourselves). I always ask of Christians who like to use Isaiah 7:14 as proof of what use is that information 800 years into the future for a king in danger of being attacked. His needs are immediate. Another question: What human even has the ability to foretell the future a week from now, it’s just plain ludicrous. Why do modern people who supposedly are educated believe ancestors from the bronze age who had no clue where the sun went at nightfall.
“You mean like using Isaiah 7:14 as a prophecy for Jesus.”
Checked into this one:
Something what that article doesn’t say is that the Earth can still HANG upon nothing and be set on pillars. Job was simply saying that the Earth doesn’t hang upon nothing, or the Earth doesn’t HANG, it is set on pillars and has a foundation. It doesn’t HANG. The apologists won’t clear THAT contradiction up, though, will they? LOL
Thanks Garbonzo,
Yes, that thought had occurred to me — just because it doesn’t hang on anything doesn’t mean it couldn’t also be supported by something.
I think the whole of this topic just identifies how little we know even now. As Garbonzo says it is very interesting and I agree. To assume a pillar contradicts the Earth standing on nothing is an empty argument, for to suggest that if it stands on pillars can’t be accurate as it can’t also hang suspended on nothing at the same time, you would assume that you are talking about a flat Earth? We all know the Earth is not flat, in much the same way as scripture suggests, and so it could be suspended on nothing and yet, due to it’s spherical nature, it’s internal parts could indeed support the Earth. But then you assume that current scientific thinking suggests that we do know about the internals of our Earth. Whislt there is a wide belief about the Earth having a Molten Liquid core, recent thinking has once again changed to suggest that the actual core is Rock underneath the Liquid Mantle. If this core is Rock (under this way of thinking) then it could also mean that the Earth could have supporting pillars. Add to teh fact that there are crystalline pillars that proceed from this core that have been identified, some even protruding through the surface of the Earth and then suddenly you find you haven’t conclusively proven a thing.
However, if your reason here is to disprove the bible, what is your reason? For instance, I believe the bible, but I accept that other people believe their own theories on creation, life, etc. I however, don’t have a desire to disprove them and especially to try and ridicule them in the process? We should debate things respectfully, this after all is much healthier in the interests of exploring the many mysteries that surround us. We all share this space, so let’s share it mindfully.
Thanks for your post.
Howdy Watcher,
Fair question, and I agree. As a believer of many years, I’m really just interested in examining what I believe (or believed). If I ridicule, it’s hopefully not directed at a person but an idea.
But certainly there will be some people who see will interpret any criticism of their beliefs as disrespectful, and so I’m often on the defense. But then again, if someone doesn’t want to read criticisms of Christianity, they probably shouldn’t be here, they should be reading something safe… like one of Norman L. Geisler’s books.
Thanks for the feedback!
“The pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.” 1 Samuel 2:8
Usually when a building has pillars they are part of the building’s internal structure, not stilts upon which it teeters, like you seem to suggest. I’m surprised that this has escaped your notice entirely.
Word refers more to nations and societies (eg world champion), earth to the planet/physical geography. So it comes as no surprise to me that the world (nations, societies etc) rest upon the earth (with its tectonic plates, mantle etc).
“Shakes the earth from its place.” – Could this refer to its orbit or axis of rotation?
“Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?” – Could this allude to the gravitational forces that hold it in orbit, or just be plain rhetoric to highlight the fact that there are many things that are beyond Job’s understanding.
I don’t see any knockout punch here. More of a hollow clanging sound.
Howdy Ideket.
I think that would be pushing the translation quite a bit. But honestly, I think we could translate these verses (in hindsight) to mean all sorts of seemingly relative things.
Ditto my above statement.
God could’ve very easily pointed out the basics. He could’ve said, “Hey Job, was it you who sent the earth and planets going around the sun?” But He didn’t. The problem is just as much what God didn’t say, as what we can twist and turn what He did say into something relevant.
My reason for addressing this question is because the statement “He hangeth the earth upon nothing” is often used as a “knockout punch” by Christians to prove that God has a special insight into how the Universe functions. Certainly God could have delivered this kind of punch, if He actually existed and the Bible were actually His handiwork, but I don’t think this verse is the knockout punch some believers think it is.
Have a great day! 🙂
Hey man, I love your answers to these comments. How do you quote words like that?
Also, you don’t need to capitalize the pronoun when talking about God. It was something the Christians started doing to show that God is more important than anything else, but it’s not an officially proper thing to do in regards to grammar. =) (His, Him, He, etc,)
Hey Garbonzo,
The quotes are something WordPress lets me do when editing comments, not sure how to do it outside of the editing tools.
Thanks for the advice on the pronouns, I’ve since stopped doing it — old habit.
Well the understanding of men of old could certainly not be the same as modern men’s understanding. Based on this initial condition any speech made by these men would sound stupid in the ears of modern men, nevertheless we should consider that irrespective of individual’s understanding, we are still talking about a physical object. Interpretations is faulty at best in both parties, since 7 billion individuals cannot come to a single agreement on anything at all. So what we have left, are just a physical object and the words being used to describe some perceptions of it. The pillars of earth could conceivably be a description of the tectonic “plates” which supports the crust of the earth. There are 7 major plates around the globe and these are what are supporting the crust and surface of the earth and we could say that the pillars are shaky!! As to the planet itself, yes it hangs upon nothing in space. It just sits in a gravitational well and following the curvature of the well in its orbit. So i would think that there are two perspectives involved in those passages regarding the earth. The one about “hangs upon nothing” is about the planet whereas the pillars are obviously what they are “pillars” or tectonic “plates” supporting the crust of the earth.
I see no problem,the ideas that the earth hangs from nothing and the earth is set on pillars are not mututally exclusive. I agree that pillars could be a reference to tectonic plates-could be, not must be.After all, who is to say that the word “pillars” wasn’t used in reference to something as yet unknown to science?
Given that you run this blog, I would be unsurprised if you had come across this before, but here is an interesting study of science in the context of the Bible: http://www.one-gospel.org/thebible/i_thebible_02.htm
I understand this whole knock out punch thing that God could have said the earth goes around the sun. Though, did you know that God speaks in parables, double edge sword meanings? See you can’t just take a scripture and say well, here is a contradiction. Surely, your understanding of the same scripture is told different in my own understanding.
Did you know that the parables are spokened this way so his children will understand them. These are not ment for the unbelievers, it’s secrets are giving to his children.
If you really want to see what I see and hear what I hear, then take the simple step. Get to know the Lord, seek his kingdom and everything will be added unto you. Will it be to hard for you to do? I believe not since you are good in finding such scriptures as to these. I tell you what, I will pray for you in hoping that you seek the lord with your heart and mind, hungry and thirsty for the lord’s Jesus words.
To the apologists above…
See, that’s the point, though! If this book were written by the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent creator of the Universe THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR INTERPRETATION! The text would be simple, concise and PROFOUNDLY, verifiably true. And it is not. It is full of metaphor and parable for which the meaning changes with the time and culture of the people reading it. If the “truth” of the Bible were absolute, if God is unchanging and his moral law is absolute, then why do we have to account for context and culture in our interpretations of his supposed absolute and true word?
GREAT blog, by the way! I am thoroughly enjoying your take!
Thanks Anonymous,
I agree. How hard is it to say “So ya… your earth is shaped like a ball, and spins as it travels around the sun,” or something to that effect. If the one who inspired the Bible was the also the maker of the world, this should be pretty basic stuff.
Not only that, but he could inspire people from all over the world with this information, so when the eventually meet, they realize they all heard from the real God.
Exactly. Just to clarify 2 things… I am the “Anonymous” poster above (just created this wordpress account so, it’s like I’m real now!) and also when I said “If the “truth” of the Bible were absolute…” this is NOT to say that there is no truth or beauty in the Bible, because there certainly is. There are lessons that can be gleaned from those metaphors and parables and there is some beautiful imagery and prose, especially in the KJV… but then I find Tolkien and Anne Rice to be beautiful also, so…
Certainly. I still believe the golden rule is a good idea, even if God doesn’t exist. There’s also a lot of timeless advice about dealing with anger, seeking wisdom, avoiding quarrelsome women, and so on.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me John 5:39
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. I hope you get the message
I don’t think we’re talking about purely “secret” things here. We know these things today, they’re no secrets, but had God revealed them earlier, it would’ve been a clue that the scriptures weren’t just written by men.
We know these things today, they’re no secrets, -Sry to burst your bubble but you know nothing pertaining to scripture and deep truth- eg. This is a prophercy that has unfolded in our time.
Isaiah 4:1 And in THAT DAY seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
Now unless you have a friend who has a deep knowledge of how to use the bible to interprete itself,this is just a mere text to you…Maybe you can do it, plz prove me wrong…
I wasn’t referring to scripture, I was referring to science.
We know many things today that we didn’t know then (DNA, germs, microscopic animals, orbits of the planets, etc.) If God had no reservations about revealing “secret” things like the fact that the earth hangs on nothing, (we’d find out soon enough, anyway), then He should also have no objection to demonstrating His knowledge in other areas, which would help support His case for being creator.
I have some Jewish friends with a deep knowledge of the Bible, but I think they’d disagree with your friends who also claim to have a deep knowledge of the Bible.
I have some Jewish friends with a deep knowledge of the Bible, but I think they’d disagree with your friends who also claim to have a deep knowledge of the Bible.-
and how would you know? FYI the bible alone interpretes itself. So your jewish friend is irrelevant unless he can interprete isaiah 4:1. You need to ,that way you will see a prophercy unfold. And Then we shall know how the quran or the book of morman stands.
Well well well-so my skeptical friend was a pentecostal. God is Good, I have been wondering why His majesty was asking me to hit you with Isaiah 4:1.
Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
Let us use the bible to interprete.
A woman in the bible represents a church,
One man” =that would be Jesus Christ
our own bread- our own doctrine
our own apparel-our own righteousness
call by they name -call by Jesus’s name.
Before I translate-are you familiar with the great harlot of babylon, I’m leaning towards yes,because you were a pentecostal,surely you have read rev.
rev 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries-this would be the wicked church.
In contrast we have
” Exod 26:31 You shall make a veil woven of BLUE, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine woven linen. It shall be woven with an artistic design of cherubim. Notice a difference in dress? Its the Blue-(blue represents the laws-commandments numbers 15:38-39) the wicked church doesnt have blue….rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Here we have in the last days-now 7 churches ,shall take hold of one man(Jesus christ as their saviour) but they would use thier own doctrine,and their own righteousness, and only want to use the name jesus ,jesus so that they wont be ashamed, but in everything else have no affiliation with him.
Today you can see this in protestant churches,they call upon jesus ,jesus,but they dont want anything to do with his laws,or his robe of righteousness. They follow their own conscience and refuse to let the bible be their ultimate guide.They have even substituted another day of worship to the one that HE, Jesus Christ established,from creation. God choose Sat (7th day) they choose sun(day of the sun-pagan) God never abolished any of his commandments,yet they say they will keep 9 ,not ten.
Did Isaiah lie? As an expentecostal, Tell me the truth.
And that is why christ says they will say (matt 7:22 , Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?and I will say unto them- I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
Now the reason for giving you these text is simple,the bible uses an account of two witnesses to establish a point 2 cor 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you, In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
At this point, I’m gonna to have to bow out, because we’ve strayed too far from the original topic… and, frankly, you seem too far gone to reason with. 😦
But I wish you all the best in this life and the next.
I wish you all the best my friend,I leave you with this- When you see calamity after calamity increase and waxing worse, this country-protestant america will stretch out its hand to rome-they will UNITE church and state-and the persecution will begin.
I pray that you wont be decieved and will get an opportunity to come back To God.plz,put this in a place where you can laugh at me ,until it happens. I am sorry -i was not able to convice you in an orderly manner, but i know you will see the truth before the end.
Remember -the constitution forbids it, but it will happen. Wish you the best brother.
All the best to you, too. I’m guessing you’re Seventh Day Adventist?
That I am bro
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? … Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?” Job 38:4-6
God tells us what those foundations are in 1 Samuel:
“The pillars of the earth are the (LORDS), and he hath set the world upon them.” 1 Samuel 2:8
And again in Psalms 75:
“When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm.”
Mr atheist -have you ever heard the term-“in his hands he got the whole world?
God is the one holding the earth,not some pillar-,the text is self explanatory-the pillars of the earth are the lords-
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. psalms 104:5
You claim the bible contradicts itself -but your lack of knowledge is stifling. E.G He hangs the world on nothing, But we do know that it is gravity…while you are looking at literal pillars for holding the earth, the gravitational force is Gods-He created it -so we can attribute it to him.
The question that none of you can never answer me is how Did Job know in the first place. Did he have a powerful telescope? And here is the master killer-40:22) 22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, . ..The circle of the earth – Or rather, “above” (על ‛al) the circle of the earth. The word rendered ‘circle’
(חוּג chûg) denotes “a circle, sphere,-contrary to atheist who believe that we (theist ) thought the world to be flat… Try as hard as you guys may-there is no doubt ,this is evidence that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Text for above .Isaiah 40:22) 22
Hi Xxodia,
Firstly, I’m curious where you managed to find “chûg” denoted as sphere. According to Strong’s, it is “circle, circuit, compass.” I was unable to find any sources that suggested a sphere shape.
Additionally, according to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia… “It is also used in the sense of surrounding territory, as in the expression ‘circle of Jordan’.” Isaiah seems to be referencing a general area, not a geometrical shape.
“…how Did Job know in the first place?”
What’s to know? There were only two possibilities, not millions, either the earth is supported by something, or it is not, and we could use the Bible to argue either position. Job is really giving us very little information here, even if he is entirely correct.
Furthermore, Job may not have had a telescope, but he had eyes and a brain. The sun and moon both appeared to hang on nothing, and clearly the sun would go down on one side of the earth, and come up on the other. It doesn’t really take a genius to figure out it must be going underneath, and there must not be anything blocking it’s path.
Technically speaking, scientists don’t even consider space to be “nothing,” even though it appears empty, it is still something.
You’re welcome to pick one or two science facts that the Bible seems to get correct and say “…there is no doubt, this is evidence that the Bible is the inspired word of God!” but if I show you several scientific facts in the Quran, you must also agree to draw the same conclusion. If not, then these “science facts” are not evidence of anything.
Do plz show me ,and my bro, this isnt a tip of the iceberg,its an ice pick. Do you want to know a secret, only the bible prophesizes, and it comes to pass. Only God knows the future. Now if you want to deny that then our reasoning is over.
1″The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall jostle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.” Nahum 2:3-4
(What Nahum saw was our modern form of transportation, the automobile. Nahum had never seen anything move faster than a horse.
He described what he saw as chariots that were like flaming torches (from the front the headlights of automobiles and from the rear taillights and the fire from the exhaust.)
Again ,you may state your opinion,-but remember that statement-they shall seem like torches. Now explain to me once again.
Sure,
I’ll see your automobile and raise you air traffic…
“And by the heaven full of tracks” (Quran 51:7)
The Quran also saw future crimes being solved by using fingerprints and DNA…
“Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing” (Quran 41:21)
Other religions do this, too. Joseph Smith predicted that the Mormons would “go to the Rocky Mountains and … be a great and mighty people.” They did, and today we have a Mormon running for president!
But I’m not about to rush out and become Christian, Muslim, or Mormon because of these seemly impressive predictions. There are reasons prophecy works, we read into these enigmatic prophetic statements what we want to see, and our brain struggles to make sense of them, like reading our horoscope, or seeing shapes in clouds.
I would recommend reading Question 32: “Can prophecies prove the Bible is true?”
quran 51:8 Most surely you are at variance with each other in what you say.
quran 41:21 And they will say to their skins, “Why have you testified against us?” They will say, “We were made to speak by Allah , who has made everything speak; and He created you the first time, and to Him you are returned
22 And you did not veil yourselves lest your ears and your eyes and your skins should bear witness against you, but you thought that Allah did not know most of what you did.
I dont know and care about Joseph smith, isaiah 4:1 deals with them. But clearly- you dont know jack,from jill- misinterpreting the quran, claiming a prophercy clearly when there is none….
I would recommend reading Question 32: “Can prophecies prove the Bible is true?”Yes-only God knows the future-
I would recommend you ask yourself,why would 40 different authors ,who have no claim to a book,over the span of 2-3000yrs have been writing in accordance with each other,none taking credit for his work but giving all the glory to God who rightly deserves it.
Lord of the rings has J. R. R. Tolkien, Harry potter has J.K. Rowling, and all major books and works of fiction,are credited to a name or author. Selfish man would never give anyone his credit. yet here is a problem, with the bible…can you explain ? I mean if it was written today ,the parrallelism would incur such heavy lawsuits..
Just have to say, Xxodia, reading your comments…
I hear Charlton Heston or Seinfeld’s caricature of J. Peterman. It’s very entertaining!
Hello,
I’ve been a Christian since April of this year (2012). I’ve really enjoyed your questions, I find them challenging and (for me) faith affirming. It reminds me of a verse:
“And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”” Mathew 22:37.
Loving God with your mind entails learning his word, and understanding it. That said, and with a quick prayer I’m ready to begin answering.
For to answer Job 9:6, let’s jump forward to Job 26:11
“The pillars of heaven tremble and are astounded at his rebuke” Job 26:11
“Pillars of heaven”, (alternately translated as “Pillars that hold up the sky” HCSB) was a common idiom at the time for mountains. Now let’s jump back to Job 9, but start one verse prior at Job 9:5-6.
“5 he who removes mountains, and they know it not, when he overturns them in his anger, 6 who shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars tremble;” Job 9:5-6
Note the commas. We never finish talking about mountains until the topical change at the end via a semi-colon. Pillars in this case are mountains.
Psalms are songs. They are like all songs, in that they stay on a specific topic. Psalm 75 is about how God Abases the Proud, but Exalts the Righteous.
“When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm.” Psalm 75:3
The word used for “quake” is the word “muwg” (Strongs H4127) and it means “1) to melt, cause to melt” Both literally, and figuratively through fear or death. The English word “quake” only makes sense in the context of fear, or alarm, NOT in the context of shaking. So, with a more accurate translation:
“2 “When I select an appointed time, It is I who judge with equity. 3 “The earth and all who dwell in it melt; It is I who have firmly set its pillars. Selah. 4 “I said to the boastful, ‘Do not boast,’ And to the wicked, ‘Do not lift up the horn;” Psalm 75:2-4 (NAS)
Which ties into Samuel:
8 “He raises the poor from the dust, He lifts the needy from the ash heap To make them sit with nobles, And inherit a seat of honor; For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, And He set the world on them.” 9 9 “He keeps the feet of His godly ones, But the wicked ones are silenced in darkness; For not by might shall a man prevail.” 1 Samuel 2:8-9
Both 1 Sam 2:8 and Psalm 75 are about God’s (final) judgment. Does it make sense that in the middle of a verse it would drastically change subjects and say “HEY! PILLARS!” and then resume the topic? No, they are all in the same topic. These pillars are clearly not literal given the subject matter of these chapters / verses. Instead it’s to reassure the reader that the God that created the earth and it’s inhabitance is in control at all times. (Psalms 75:3, 82:5, 104:5 and 1 Samuel 2:8).
As for Job 38:4-6 “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? … Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?”
The first “foundations” is the word “yacad” (Strongs H3245) It means “1) to found, fix, establish, lay foundation”.
The second “foundations” is actually 2 words, “pinnah” (Strongs H6438) which means “corner”, and “eben” (Strongs H68) which means “stone”.
To better understand what is going on here let’s see the verses in their entirety, with a slightly easier to read translation (Heads up, this is God grilling Job):
“3 Get ready to answer Me like a man; when I question you, you will inform Me. 4 Where were you when I established the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. 5 Who fixed its dimensions? Certainly you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 What supports its foundations? Or who laid its cornerstone” Job 38:3-6
These are not statements about the earth, but more so rhetorical questions (basically putting Job back in his place). I don’t believe it’s a stretch to think that God was speaking metaphorically and Job knew it.
“31 Can you fasten the chains of the Pleiades or loosen the belt of Orion? 32 Can you bring out the constellations in their season and lead the Bear and her cubs?” Job 38:31-32
Jews have always know that the stars are not real animals, beings or other gods. This was well established in the Pentateuch.
Read the rest of this chapter and you will see what I mean.
And so the answer: Clearly mountains, clearly God’s sovereignty, and clearly a metaphor.
Thank you again for your blog, and opening it up for people to respond.
Your brother in Christ,
-Christopher.
Hi Christopher, I am not the one who wrote the blog, but I have been subscribed to this page. I read your response in it’s entirety.
In your first counter-argument, you say it is clearly talking about mountains. Even if the writer was talking about mountains, *mountains do not “hold up” the sky*. So you either take that as an idiom or take that as fact. Do we know for sure? No. You say that was a common idiom at the time. Where do you get this information? It is impossible to know what people that at that time. It did not have to be an idiom at all. This is not a counter to your explanation, I am only trying to point out that your explanation is not the only logical one out there. Logically, there is no way to know.
Your second counter-argument says God is talking about his sovereignty. I agree. But I have no idea why this is a counter to the argument that the writer was talking about Earth’s pillars. This is clearly a huge gap in logic. God was boasting his sovereignty BY talking about the making of the Earth. Eg. I am powerful, I made the Earth by setting it’s pillars. Just as a mother would sometimes say to her children that they wouldn’t be alive if they didn’t come out of her belly.
Just because he was talking about his sovereignty doesn’t mean that he can’t talk about his making the Earth? I have no idea what field you are coming from here.
Similiarly on your last counter-argument you argue that the questions were not talking about the Earth, but rhetorical questions. Well of course they were rhetorical questions! But why does this mean that he wasn’t talking about the Earth? If a mother asks her child, “Do you rememeber when you came out of my belly?” It is going to be rhetorical, because of course a newborn baby doesn’t remember anything. Now does that mean she wasn’t talking about birth? No. She was clearly talking about birth, and that babies come out of the belly.
Just because a question is rhetorical doesn’t mean it is also metaphorical. There is no reason to believe that when he asked Job, “What supports it’s foundations?” he was talking metaphorically! Why? Why would he have a reason to speak metaphorically? He was obviously talking about the making of the Earth! It would be like if a mother said to her child, “Do you remember when you came out of my mouth?” And then saying that it was just metaphorical! It doesn’t make sense for a mother to say that unless a mother actually believed that, or unless that actually happened. (of course, suspend your belief for the purpose of this example)
I just don’t know how you can make these jumps in logic.
If you are truly open-minded, you are welcome to try and make a counter to the Bible verses explained here: http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/iron-chariots.html
Which I believe is solid proof against the inspiration of the Bible. Unless, of course, you make huge jumps in logic like you did here.
Garbonzo,
Thank you for replying to my post. I can certainly see where you are coming from as I did make quite a few leaps. Please allow me to clarify.
In response to your first point: While you are correct that “It is impossible to know what people [thought] at that time” in terms of an individual verse. We do however have an entire book (Job) with 42 chapters, and 1,070 verses to put that single verse into context. My jump between Job 26:11 and 9:6 was to show a consistent usage of language (though my delivery was lacking), more specifically the use of the word “pillars”. If you accept ether the 9:6 or 26:11 as mountains, you must accept the other. If you need additional convincing on this matter:
• The Greek historian Herodotus in wrote in Book 4:184,3 “The natives (Egyptians) say that this is a pillar of heaven. The mountain was so high up that they thought it reached heaven and that it held up the sky.” Born 484 BC, Died 425 BC. It’s no stretch of the imagination that in the 400 years the Hebrews lived with the Egyptians that there were significant cultural exchanges (manifested more vividly by the Hebrews worshiping the Egyptian gods noted in Exodus).
• Gesenius’s Lexicon (Used hand in hand with Strongs for de facto Lexicon definitions) H5981 (Pillars) “Used of the pillars of heaven (very high mountains), Job 26:11; of the earth, ibid. [Job] 9:6”
• HCSB Study Bible notes on Job 26:11 “God’s power is felt in His presents on the mountains [(pillars)], which stretch from deep below the sea (Jnh 2:6) into the sky like pillars (or standing columns; cp. 1Kg 7:15-21).
• NAS John MacArthur Study Bible notes on Job 26:11 “pillars of heaven. A figure of speech for the mountains that seem to hold up the sky (cf. Ps 104:32).”
It’s even difficult to defend this blogs interpretation of Job 9:6 as the cause of earthquakes, because all other accounts of where or what the earth sits on are integrated into the cause of the earthquakes. E.g.:
• India: 4 elephants that stand on the back of a turtle, the turtle is balanced on a cobra. Any animal moves, the earth shakes.
• West Africa: The earth is a flat disk, held up on one side by an enormous mountain and on the other by a giant. The giant’s wife holds up the sky. The earth trembles when he stops to hug her
• It goes on (17 other examples): http://www.sjusd.org/leland/teachers/sgillis/seismic/Earthquake_legends_article.pdf
IF Job was making the argument that the earth sat atop of pillars, the pillars would have been the mechanism of earthquakes. Thus Job 9:6 would have looked more like this:
“He shakes the pillars from their place and it makes the earth tremble”.
Instead of what Job actually wrote:
“He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble”. Job 9:6.
Not to mention that both Job 26:11 and 9:6 are in the context of the observable (through sense perception) acts/works of God. I don’t see any free standing pillars, do you? =D
I hope I’ve made it clear enough that the evidence points to only one answer for the book of Job, and that the probability of any other solution is null or close to it.
I would like to make a final note about your argument of logic. When making decisions humans gathering all choices/options then reduce. Illogical options are first removed, leaving only the logical ones remaining. Those logical options are then reduced again to a single choice/option with the highest perceived probability of success. Your argument of logic was seemingly missing that final piece. Without it, you open yourself up to violating the Law of Non-contradiction in your own mind on a daily basis.
Thank you again for the time you put into replying to my post. I will respond to your second and third points soon to add clarification on my part.
If you’re in America, I hope you had a wonderful Thanks Giving! If you are elsewhere, I hope you had a great weekend. =]
Your brother in Christ,
-Christopher.
Hi Christopher,
Job could have been talking about mountains, but it seems many ancient peoples thought that mountains WERE pillars that held up the sky. God could have easily cleared up this error. (in addition to making sure that his book had all sorts of accurate statements about the creation of the Earth and the universe)
“Your argument of logic was seemingly missing that final piece. Without it, you open yourself up to violating the Law of Non-contradiction in your own mind on a daily basis.”
If you can explain this, that’d be great. =)
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Mike
Hey Mike!
I had a quick second so I thought I’d respond, and thanks for the reply! I did have a really great Thanks Giving thank you. Hands down, it’s my favorite holiday.
In response to your first statement… Yes! Absolutely He could have.
In response to your second statement… My point was only that given 2 logical options that are mutually exclusive (I,e. You cannot have pillars be mountains AND be the physical support columns of the earth at the same time and in the same relationship), you must chose one or the other. Accepting both as logically ‘true’ and not further refining your options down to a single choice would be a violation of the law of non-contradiction. You must weigh the evidence of each option and make a determination from there. Ignoring the probability of one option being true over the other despite the evidence in the contrary is to willfully choose ignorance. The “on a daily basis” part was hyperbole. =]
Mike. Thank you again for the reply. Being able to talk to you, and the author of this blog is truly a special thing, and I honestly cherish it.
Your brother in Christ,
-Christopher.
When I first read this post by the 500 Questions, I did not think it was among the best in this blog. The entire question seemed somewhat insubstantial. Now however, as I have read the apologetic comments on it, I realize that this actually is an issue. It is as if the Christians reading this blog were somehow unable to read the entire post abowe.
The entire point of the post was that no matter how much apologetics and better translation is put on these verses, they do not become any better “inside information” about the state of the world, or the universe. It really does not matter wether the pillars of the earth were meant to be meaning the tectonic plates, some yet unknown method of upholding the earth, or simply mountains. All of these explanation models are either meaningless, or still fit into the Jim Jeffries description of the Bible as a book that has very little of anything in it further than five miles of the writer (as he mentions, that the Bible does not ever mention kangaroos).
Now, for example mentioning and describing kangaroos would have been a lot more compelling “inside information” in comparrison to such claims as the earth hangs on nothing, or that there are something called the pillars of the earth. And even the kangaroos would not have made it plausible alone. But there are nothing even to compare to the kangaroos in the Bible, are there? As the 500 Questions explained the comment that earth hangs on nothing, as it does, is not very convincing “inside information” regardless, if there ever were any comments about the pillars.
Even if the Bible claimed the earht is an orb, it would not be very convincing. That information would have been obtainable only a bit further away, than the five miles mentioned by Jim Jeffries, in Egypt where the local scientists had allready established the shape of the earth and even its circumference during the Hellenistic period. But if the Bible was supposed to convince us of the special nature as a word of a god, it could have actual “inside information”, that science would have confirmed later. Infact it would only have that sort of information and not a bunch of typical folklore, today only excusable as such streched metaphors of the state of the earth and universe, they no longer have any real value as information and are reduced to gibberish.
What is also very interesting in the comment section here, is that the fact that the Bible makes some equally hazy predictions as the Koran, or Nostradamus, for that matter, is brought up as some sort of example of the exeptional nature of the Bible in comparrison to other alledgedly divine sources. No matter, how plausible you personally find the Bible predictions or metaphorical descriptions of the form of nature, there are plenty of other people who find metaphors and predictions by other religions just as much reliable as you do. The fact that some people find any particular religious text plausible does not count as any sort of evidence for it actually being true and divinely inspired, but the fact that a lot of people who have read it and do not find it plausible in that sense, actually refutes the (rather slim) possibility, that it actually was a message by a benevolent all-mighty to all of humanity. It is not in any way special in comparrison to other such man made scriptures/traditional stories, if it has no more power to convince people. That is the logic of it.
Funniest part of the matter is that the Bible is supposedly the only concrete method of communication between mankind and an alledged creator of the universe and what is also alledged is that this entity inspired the original writers of this book, but obviously this same god has been quite absent from any of the translation process, since so much misunderstanding of what god meant seems to revolve around how the book was translated. Rather careless of the alledgedly omnipotent and benevolent god, would you not say?
Merry X-mass, or whatever you celebrate on winter solstice.
You said it better than I could. Never even heard of the kangaroo thing. Very nice. In addition I would like to add to the end of your last paragraph, that not only is/was he absent from the translation and interpretation process, but also the copying process; as there are many many known copyist errors in the Bible. There should be no errors at all in the work of the creator.
@ Mike. Yes, would it not be a bummer to end up in eternal torture in a lake of fire, only to realize, that the reason for “rejecting salvation” was because of a misspelling/miscopying/misinterpretation/misstraslation, that made you skeptical of the “absolute truth” in the original text? Wich of course, would have convinced you of its self evidence, if only you had been proficient in ancient Greek and bothered to read the Bible instead of reading up on Xenofon, Socrates or Homeros? Yet, this is what one also has to believe, if one thinks, that dissbelief leads to hell. But heaven will be full of guys who were scared by the mere chance of Pascal’s wager, and “chose” to believe just in case it might all be true and happened to be born into the right culture to be subjected to the correct choise between all the different gods in their – just in case – belief.
The modern pharisees are so funny…
Couldn’t ancient people have thought of the mountains as holding up the sky? It’s a possibility. Only would a person who has been to the very peak of a mountain know that is not the case, and even if there were those who did that in ancient times, only his testimony alone might not persuade the mainstream theory. Just a thought.
Speaking of earth’s crust during an earthquake, the bible describes it “like a carpet rolled under your feet ” as mentioned in the book of Revelations.
so to refute your statement, God through the bible has desbride the tectonic plate long before modern geologist invented their theory.
Hi ftcardenas,
With all due respect, I checked and the Bible is not given any credit for the discovery of plate tectonics. One would think, if the Bible had clearly described the theory, scientists today would say, “The Bible described it perfectly, we just needed to confirm it!”
Back in the 1800’s, we had no idea about plate tectonics, but Christian geologists were not pushing for the theory based on Biblical claims. If the Bible did not describe it with enough clarity for us to understand it in advance, and the only way to see it in the Bible is after the discovery, then the Bible obviously wasn’t describing it very well, and more than likely we are reading it into the Bible with the benefit of hindsight.
…. The Pillars are the poles of the planet…. There are two, with opposing magnetic fields, which cause gravity….
The foundations are tectonic plates……
The bible repeatedly rests it’s authenticity on prophecy, stating that we are told these things so we may know we were told them, when they happen. Information is found all throughout the Bible.
😉
Pillars cannot be construed as poles anymore than the God particle can be called Zeus. Just as the God particle is just not really talking about God, the magnetic poles are not actual poles. It’s just a name we gave it that actually has nothing to do with any physical property of the poles. If God wanted to describe the magnetic poles, he could have done it a lot better than what humans called them. We see no mention of how the poles operate anywhere in the Bible.
There is no prophecy in the Bible that can be validated.
Why do people accept that if the pillars are meant to be the tectonic plates, then that is a valid description? That’s not how earth is structured anyway. This is because the tectonic plates aren’t the foundation of the earth, they are the earth’s crust. In other words, the plates are our physical foundation, not the earth’s. They might hold people and cities up, but they don’t hold the earth up (that would be saying that they hold themselves up which isn’t true). The foundation for the plates is liquid magma (the mantle or molten rock). The mantle itself sits on the liquid outer core of the earth (a bunch of molten metal). Then, finally, the very center of the earth (the only thing that could be called a foundation for the rest of the earth) is a highly compressed, solid ball of metal (mostly iron). Even if the pillars meant the plates, god left out the 2 layers of liquid and a metal ball portions of earth’s foundation. Also, magnetic fields do not cause gravity. The moon has gravity, but no magnetism.
I believe God exists and have faith, but regarding religious varients and whos right and wrong, the whole thing has become the longest running game of “Chinese whispers” those who held positions of power would commission scriptures rewrote to suit their own goals or their own beliefs, Paul did say God would protect his word and it would survive all these things, which to a fair degree it has, if anybody takes the time to analyse scriptures side by side from every translation/version, you will see a common sentiment, and mostly only the working of the basic translations vary slightly, but the principles the same, even in koran and hindu teachings,…..its all the other mumbo jumbo that gets tacked on by the fantasist scribes, that screw up the original teachings or commandments,
The Jews for example, ADDED on more laws and restrictions to try and govern every aspect of their lives, even Jesus commented how they dont even lift the pinky to help reduce the burden of the law apon them, referring to their Tora,
Luke 11:46 Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.
Mathew 23,
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Theres a lot of scriptures in the Birble and charachters that also get mentioned in the Koran, but the teachings differ, Christian bibles paint Joseph as strong willed guy who didnt give into temptation when his masters wife tried to seduce him,
the Koran slanders Joseph saying he tried to seduce his masters wife, classic chinese whispers, and only version can be true……
but I leave this thought with you all, how do you hide the truth best ? by creating so many versions with a varient each time the truth gets buried, and as a man of Faith, I beleive this is how Gods enemy would go about it,
everything in the world is designed to distract us, and everything goes against what God wants to achieve,
Harmony, peace & unity, Love
the things in the world are, selfishness, division and greed and Hate,
the Bible says Satan rules this earth as he offered it all to Jesus if hed do obeisance to him, in order for that to have been a real test for Jesus, Satan would have to “own” or be ruler of it to give it away would he not ?
now ask yourself, who does the Earth reflect the most, whose qualities are both polar opposite,
same way a nation reflects its leader, what qualities does the Earth reflect the most the Evil ways of someone selfish and greedy who wanted Gods Glory, or a loving and kind God, (that no matter what damage is done, he can undo at the right time) suffer as Jesus did, knowing that in the end youl prevail, mankind can kill and take life, but God can certainly give it back,
many scriptures state over and over again, you will receive your soul as a spoil if you keep doing things agreeable to God
Jeremiah 45:5
New Living Translation
Are you seeking great things for yourself? Don’t do it! I will bring great disaster upon all these people; but I will give you your life as a reward wherever you go. I, the LORD, have spoken!'”
King James Bible
And seekest thou great things for thyself? seek them not: for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD: but thy life will I give unto thee for a prey in all places whither thou goest.
Also remember that “LORD” in bold text like this in Christian bibles is where those idiots in charge, thought the Holy name of God to be too pure for “common folk” or non priests to say, so they removed the divine name,
remember Jesus teaching how to pray, he starts of with telling us to Sanctify Gods name…..how can anybody do so when churches hide the divine name? how can you get to know anybody better, when you dont even know their name? He also said “your kingdom come” as in come here to the Earth, other scriptures say your enemys will be placed as a “foot stool” well consider the heavens are ABOVE the earth, scripture says Satan was cast out of the heavens DOWN to earth, JW’s belive that to be when they expected a Rapture and made a mistake, BUT since 1914 there has not been one single day on Eath without a war happening somewhere on this planet, thats not one single day of peace across the whole earth, Revelation 12:12 Satan has great anger knowing his time left is short.
2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:
“‘Father,[a]
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.[b]
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[c]
And lead us not into temptation.[d]’”
Even if the Bible does not say it will be protected, why in the world would you trust a deity that cannot protect his own word? This just seems like common sense. We would then not even know if ANYTHING in the Bible is approved of by this deity or not. You can’t pick in choose. It’s either all or nothing.
Are you suggesting God should have mapped out exactly how he created everything to ancient Jews? That would have been pretty comical, and it would almost be counter-productive to the greater point being made: that an infinitely powerful God created all that we know.
If you look throughout the books of the bible you will find several different writing styles designed to support the points being made. Keeping in mind that the bible is not a world fact book, but a revelation to give us a glimpse of God, it’s not at all difficult to interpret “the pillars of heaven tremble and are astounded at his rebuke” as metaphorical. Do you think the writer thought God literally “rebukes” them?
I’m not suggesting God give us all the secrets of the universe, just enough to let us know he knows what he’s talking about. Otherwise, how do we know the Bible is any different from any other book?
what a wonderful debate! i only would like to add it is not only God who speaks in parables.. have you ever read the way Niels Bohr talked? . Here is one quote: “When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images.
‘How do we know the Bible is different from any other book?’
Many people recognize that the Bible is different from other books – that’s probably why we’re debating it. The reason it is different is that its account of God’s dealing with the world makes sense to many people. God doesn’t prove that He is the Creator by tabulating the periodic table in Gen 1; He just tells us He made it the Earth. People who turn to God don’t turn to Him because of His scientific accuracy; they respond to His love.
As for the Bible as a scientific handbook – no, it’s not. It’s a religious text. Most natural things are described from a phenomenological standpoint – ie. as they appear standing on the Earth. I agree therefore that it could be deduced that it ‘hung’ upon nothing by looking at the moon.
But Christians who use this poetic verse in Job to say that the Bible was ahead of its time are making a category error. Job wasn’t inspired to write this because God wanted to show of His knowledge of gravity; he was simply saying that God has the power to hang it in the heavens. That makes Him different from man.
God doesn’t have to give us detailed information about His creation, it’s unfathomable, we’d be crazy if He had revealed all the details, but He reveals those we only can comprehend. Even little things He has revealed leaves us in great awe.. The only part where God is very clear in His Word is the salvation of mankind from this wicked, God-hating world, and He reveals Himself to us through Jesus Christ our Savior and Lord..name above all names.:)
God doesn’t have to give us detailed information, it would just be useful in establishing that he is actually a real being, and not just made up like the thousands of other gods.
And it’s fine if God wants to reveal himself through Jesus, but even Jesus didn’t reveal any information that would indicate he knew anything about earth’s history (e.g. dinosaurs and ice ages) or how it works. He is said to have performed miracles, but these leave no evidence for today’s audience, it’s all hearsay, and even people in his own time seemed to doubt him (e.g. Peter, Thomas, and the crowed that voted to free Barabbas).
Lastly, while the Bible may insist that mankind hates God, I don’t think that’s really true. I have nothing against God, or Zeus, or any other god, but I would like to have some sort of evidence that suggests God is more probable than another god, or a natural explanation. But most arguments I hear in defense of God could be just as easily used to defend Zeus.
Take care. 🙂
> God doesn’t have to give us detailed information, it would just be useful in establishing that he is actually a real being, and not just made up like the thousands of other gods.
I was thinking of this today. At first I thought it was a valid point (and maybe it still is), but after thinking about it some more, I see some problems with it.
I think it may be a sort of logical fallacy behind the “God of the gaps” fallacy. Wherever there is a gap, people will say, God is behind it! This is kind of like the opposite: Wherever there is a gap in scientific understanding in the Bible, you ask, “why didn’t God tell us this?” But I’m not sure it’s a valid point. For instance, what if we hypothetically say there is a parallel universe that God DID give us amazing (to us, in this universe) scientific understanding. But today (in the parallel universe), would we think it was amazing? No, we’d most likely think that’s old news. “Psh. Everyone knew that back then.”
It wouldn’t be amazing to us, because it was revealed so long ago.
So I don’t think it’s right to say that God should have revealed amazing scientific understanding in Bible times, because as soon as he did it, it would invalidate it as being amazing. We would never be satisfied.
Hopefully you understand what I mean by that.
NOW, don’t get me wrong, there are PLENTY of better (in my opinion) critics of the idea of God and Christianity. I just don’t think this is one of them, currently.
I couldnt read through all the comments here, thats just too much but I have this article that I hope you will read. Everything in the bible can be explained with how the words are used in the rest of the bible, for their meanings. Its not ‘random’ but its always explained. The more you go into the bible the more you will understand that all the questions you had are answered, for example the question that why is not the bible written as a science book and just straight forward: well Jesus said clearly that he said everything in parables because its a riddle that will make all the ‘smart’ people and the ones following money, fame, harems and so on that are the great things of this earth seem great to men but the lowly and humble people will be the great men of the earth, the servants of the others, because they know the truth. Only by studying thorougly can you see this, not a superficial answer will give you what you are looking for. Just an example. Here is an article about what these meanings are in the bible. Evrything is explained in the bible by the bible itself ! : http://creation.com/pillars-of-the-earth-does-the-bible-teach-a-mythological-cosmology
There are much better articles on this website. This article I deem as a low hanging fruit. I don’t want to debate it because the Bible is too ambiguous in this case to debate about it. I’d much rather talk about Biblical contradictions or logical fallacies than this particular article. Why don’t you pick out another article on this blog rather than this one?
Has anyone ever noticed that the bible itself is riddled with issues of pros and cons about God from the beginning up to the foretold final end? This thing could go on and on from one generation to another and yet the matter seems far from being settled because in all the arguments, the cons will never allow the pros to outweigh their intelligent reasoning. This is probably the reason why in God’s calling, he chose not many wise, mighty and noble in the flesh; the foolish, the weak, the base, the despised and the things which are not. He even recommended to his followers to adopt the attitude of a child. After all, can a clay question its maker who fashioned it? As it is written, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. To put it simply, God is the boss, and like any other boss, one does not question the boss’s authority and wisdom. Just follow his instructions and be assured of a good pay at the end of the day. Otherwise, quit the workplace and fend for your own.
It is not a thing to marvel if the Jews disagree with the Christians and the latter disagree among themselves because of the differences in their denominational and sectarian beliefs and doctrines. This matter was foretold in the time of Christ and started to set in during the time of the apostles. It is the founder of these churches specially the modern day ones that are to be blamed for all the confusions that’s going on in religion. If you have not already observed, a close look at their theologies will reveal that each and every one of them worships a god much different from the god of the bible, and perform practices other than that which was prescribed by the teachers of religion in the bible inspite of the fact that they profess that the bible is the source of their belief. Anyone who would base their studies on their doctrines will surely be misled just like a blind man being led by another blind man.
I was once an atheist but for practical reasons, a decided to join the church of God. I find living life much simplier and peaceful this way. Besides, the bible speaks of an impending perilous times followed by a day of reckoning. The day when all these arguments will be finally settled. If and when that prophecy is fulfilled, there will be no more chance for renewal. What have I to lose annyway for simply having faith and believing that a man’s whole duty is to fear and obey God regardless of whether the earth is supported by pillars and other things or suspended in space. Nothing else will matter because it is written that all this things will be done away with come the end.
What you are detailing is Pascal’s Wager, and it’s not a very good argument at all. Just as you used to be an atheist, but for so called practical reasons you decided to become theist, I have once thought as you and used Pascal’s Wager many times on internet arguments, but after gathering more information, I found it to be lacking…for practical reasons.
This video might prove helpful, as it deals with Pascal’s Wager: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iClejS8vWjo
I am 100% confident that the Bible has too many errors, contradictions, and atrocities to be inspired by an all loving God, and that the Jewish religion is much better explained through secular historian’s explanations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg), which, of course, is backed up with evidence, evidence which I have come to the conclusion, is more than the evidence on the other side; and while one could say no one can be 100% sure, I myself would not want to worship the God that is spoken of in the Bible anyway.
Don’t try to pick apart the word that was given to chosen ppl….if one does not want to believe that’s ones choice…but to rise up against the word is that of one that has clearly already chosen a side….people of the word call it good..and bad…but its really companionship or being alone… Search ur heart for god not what verses u can’t and won’t reveal….look around how could all this exist through mere coincidence lol…god is reality and reality is truth
“Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact, it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the Sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be all right, because this World was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.”
This is so easy to answer that I will make it as short as possible, has any of you read the context of the whole chapter 26? The book of Job is believe to have been written 1900 to 1700 BC when the English language was unheard of. You can’t use an English dictionary to know the meaning of another language, that will bring confusion, you have to know the meaning of a word in the original language to see a clear vision of the context (my original language is Spanish and when I learned English, I had to apply these principles to avoid confusion). The earth has its foundations on which it is laid, and its pillars by which it is supported; but these are no other than the power and providence of the Master of the sky; otherwise the earth is hung upon nothing. Figuratively, the pillars of the earth may design the princes of the world, the supreme rulers of it, and civil magistrates, who are sometimes called cornerstones, and the shields of the earth (Zech. 10:4, Ps 47:9) and so pillars, because they are the means of cementing, supporting, and protecting the people of the earth, and of preserving their peace and property (if you read chapter 26 verse 2 it starts: “How you have helped the powerless! How you have saved the arm that is feeble!”). Likewise good men may be meant in a figurative sense, who, as they are the salt of the earth (Matthew 5:13), are the pillars of it, for whose sake it was made, and is supported, and continued in being; the church is the pillar and ground of truth; and every good man is a pillar in the house of the Lord, and especially ministers of the Gospel (see Rev. 3:12, 1Tim. 3:15, Gal 2:9, Pr 9:1).
It is clear that, in context, the reference is to the noble ones, princes, not the physical Earth. Immediately before, the context is people, and immediately after the context is also about people. It is quite clear that this is the meaning.
Compare Job 26:7 ‘He suspends the Earth over nothing’. This is in the context of descriptions of the physical creation and it is difficult to see how this statement could have a figurative meaning of any kind.
No legitimate scholar, who actually studies and understands Hebrew, agrees with your interpretation of this scripture. It would be like you arguing with Americans over the correct definition of the word “potato”.
hey hey.i am from india.can you create blood?hydrogen is the beginning.ok ok ok.how did it form.it is better to believe in god than hydrogen.who can know god’s majesty.THE IS HIS THRONE AND THE EARTH IS HIS FOODSTOOL. his mercy is as long as the distance between EAST AND WEST.SO only we are alive.
The pillars of earth, is not an actual pillar like your image above. But the pillars see the both and south “poles”. Man named them, and yet we know they are not literal poles…like the ones commonly portrayed in cartoons an actual striped pole.
* the spell checked version
The pillars of earth, is not an actual pillar like your image above. But the pillars are the north and south “poles”. Man named them, and yet we know they are not literal poles…like the ones commonly portrayed at Santas house; an actual striped pole.
The Word of God says My thoughts are above your thoughts, How can a Man who lives at max a few years question the WORD. The whole meaning of Job is the GREATNESS of God , the Soverignity of God and the Uncomphrensible WISDOM of God in his Creation. Man can only stand in AWE of God and trust his divine plan and Love for each one of us. Its Good to Explore the Word but no need to argue about it.
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As has already been said, you need to take a course in hetmeneutics. Further, if you’re going to argue the application & inference of what historical texts ‘say’ or do not, it would be at least prudent to examine the original texts & manuscripts. Following that, again, as has been said, you can’t argue a verse or premise in isolation. Meaning, validity & application are negated if statements from any source are debated separate from the context of the text.
That the earth ‘hangs in nothing” is to ‘us’ with our vaunted technology readily discernable.
Job could guess all day long. But no technology of that era could give them proof thereof. The reference to pillars is not exclusive of this observation. Even in our PRESENT language, ‘earth’ can refer to BOTH the globe (all the earth hanging in the heavens) & separately, to its physical structure. Thus, the textual reference can be dually referring to the fact that the planet hangs in the heavens -and- refer to God shaking the pillars (structural foundations) of the planetary structure. (earthquakes).
Stretching reason, logic & understanding to justify the conclusion you desire to end at is oxymoronic at best. This is colloquially referred to as ‘Contempt prior to investigation’. You are fully welcome to & entitled to your beliefs & conclusions. Far be it from me to disillusion you from them. But I would hope personal intellectual integrity would drive your desire for education, intellect, &wisdom such that you suspend what you think you know long enough to investigate the evidences objectively – rather than to support a pre- conclusion that protects your present concepts, understanding, aims or ego.
Hi Jerry, thanks for writing.
As you might imagine, writing anything that threatens the claims of Christianity naturally leads to a lot of believers questioning my intelligence, integrity, education, my ability to “rightly divide” the word of God, and even my sexual orientation. (I’m sure if I were writing against Islam, I’d hear the same kinds of accusations from Muslims.)
But as you’ll see in later posts, I try (whenever possible) to let Christians speak for themselves (by using direct quotes), and let them answer my questions according to what THEY believe the Bible says. It is often difficult to ascertain what the “Christian” viewpoint is for a particular question, because so many Christians disagree, and answers will vary from denomination to denomination. I am certain all these Christians believe THEY are the only ones using hetmeneutics properly, or THEY are the only ones hearing God’s Holy Spirit correctly. But in reality, no amount of education in hetmeneutics is going to convert the Jew to a Christian, or the Christian to a Jew, or the Protestant to a Catholic. Improper hetmeneutics is the convenient scapegoat every religion uses to reassure themselves that THEY have the truth, and EVERYONE ELSE is interpreting the Bible incorrectly.
Please don’t accuse me of trying to “support a pre-conclusion that protects your present concepts, understanding, aims or ego.” I do value truth more than anything, and I have sacrificed much in pursuit of it. When the evidence pointed against Christianity, I didn’t want to believe it, and read everything I could to reassure myself that Christianity was true. But I also recognized my own bias, and accepted that it would be unfair of me to not even consider any opposing points of view.
But how does one go about ascertaining the truth? I believe that science, logic, and reason have the best track record for helping us avoid the pitfalls and fallacies of other forms of thought, so with that in mind, let’s return to Job.
If someone approached me today and said they had a vision of God and Satan (or any other deities, for that matter) having a conversation, I wouldn’t immediately assume that these deities ACTUALLY exist and that these events actually took place. This is a pretty extraordinary claim, and unless one is hopelessly gullible, one takes this information with a grain of salt.
Likewise, if someone approached me and made a claim about a talking snake, or a talking donkey, or a past global flood, or a man who walked on water, or any of the other strange and miraculous claims offered up by Christianity or other religions, the default assumption should be that this information can’t possibly be true. To simply accept these claims would be, as you put it, “stretching reason, logic & understanding to justify the conclusion you desire.”
That said, some extraordinary claims MAY be true, but we must demand some exceptionally good evidence from them precisely because they are extraordinary. Islam, for example, makes some claims about the Qur’an which seem statistically improbable, even more unlikely then knowing that “the earth hangs on nothing.” So if we are to find the latter statement justifies the extraordinary claims in the Bible, then we must also accept the former justifies the claims of the Qur’an, lest we contradict ourselves in our thinking.
If evidence can prove all the extraordinary events portrayed in the Bible, great! If we can prove that God had REAL hidden knowledge of the Universe and how life works, or that he can accurately predict the future without using questionable practices, or that he can produce miracles at an observable rate, great! But with so many extraordinary religious claims out there, this evidence needs to be equally extraordinary.
You seem like an intelligent person, but your mind seems closed to the possibility that you could actually be wrong. I would suggest you take your own advice and not trust in your own presuppositions, but continue to test them. You may be surprised.
Live long and prosper,
500Q
Only wonder
Only the lord knows his infinite wisdom
Thanks for the great post. A Christian sent me a video recently that ‘proved the Bible was true’. This was one of the verses featured. I responded to the person that it was all well and good but how should I interpret all the verses in the Bible that contradict science? They never responded. I offered them evidence to prove there were errors in the Bible but they said the Holy Spirit would not allow them to read anything contrary to the Bible.
This person can’t tell me to sit down and read the Bible for myself because they have already admitted I know the Bible better than they do. Their conclusion is that in my case it is head knowledge whereas they have heart knowledge.
When G-d test Abraham, as far as the sacrifice of his son, was he showing us what He would do with His son, that His sacrifice would be greater than Abraham.
Hi Saul,
In science there is a saying, “Post hoc ergo propter hoc,” which is Latin for “after this, therefore, because of this.” Just because something follows another event, does not mean that those two events are somehow correlated; it does not prove causation.
The human brain is wired to search for patters, and we sometimes see them in Bible stories (especially when we devote so much time studying the Bible).
The test God gave Abraham was to see how much he loved God. God did not ask the disciples to sacrifice Jesus to see how much they loved God, nor was Abraham’s sacrifice intended to wipe away the sins of others. One is a story about a test of love for God, and the other is the execution of a Jewish carpenter who claimed to be the promised Messiah. Sure, there are parallels we could draw — we can draw parallels between just about any two things — but proving that one of these tales was actually supposed to be a symbolic prediction of a very loosely related future event, is next to impossible.
So what you are saying you really don’t know
There are many side’s to G-d wisdom
Can G-d thoughts be search out, not so, for He said, It is impossible to know Me directly; “My direct thoughts” would shatter a mortal mind, leaving only a shell of emptiness
Hi Saul,
Please consider how your argument can be used for any imagined god:
Can Zeus/Odin/Baal/Thor/The Flying Spaghetti Monster’s thoughts be searched out, not so, for he said, “It is impossible to know me directly…”
Anyone can make up a god and put words in their mouth, and it’s an easy-out to say, “You don’t understand the mind of my God” whenever there’s a problem.
500Q
When you know there is no need for argument
Have not G-d revealed Himself to anyone, or are the majority of people to close minded to accept what is beyond their understanding.
50/50 chance? Good guess? Yikes … You are assuming that a man thousands of years ago knew the earth was not flat and was shaped the same as the sun and the moon. You are making Job out to be an Einstein. You are very humorous. Keep writing! 😂
Hi Sean,
Please note that I make no reference to its shape, which is inconsequential. The question is whether the earth “hangs” on something, not whether it is round, or square, or rectangular (as any of these shapes could also be suspended). But Job certainly could’ve inferred this shape based on other heavenly bodies.
I think you underestimate the intelligence of men. Thousands of years ago, men were building amazing structures, and Eratosthenes even calculated the circumference over 2000 years ago. But it doesn’t take an Einstein to wonder, “If I dug down far enough, would the earth just keep going on indefinitely? Or would it eventually end?” An eternal earth already seems like an unlikely proposition, but just by looking around, men like Job had a lot of other clues. The sun, moon, and planets also appeared to float without any sort of tethers or suspension, and the sun clearly moved under the earth where it would then rise on the other side. Regardless of its shape, the earth probably didn’t go down indefinitely.
If you’re suggesting this knowledge proves God spoke to Job, there are certainly many other truths about the Universe that would’ve been far more impressive.
500Q
I find it interesting however that no other ancient writer came to the inclusion that nothing supports the earth. Which a good number had ideas varying from atlas to a giant turtle supporting it!
Many ancient people did. As 500Q said, it’s merely a 50/50 guess, either it hangs on nothing or it does. What’s so hard to understand about this? Anaximenes of Miletus believed that “the earth is flat and rides on air; in the same way the sun and the moon and the other heavenly bodies, which are all fiery, ride the air because of their flatness.”
Xenophanes of Colophon (c. 500 BC) thought that the Earth was flat, with its upper side touching the air, and the lower side extending without limit.
@bGarbonzo, you logic of 50/50 chance is absolute rubbish. Can you say it is a 50/50 guess on the part of Edwin Hubble when he said the universe is expanding? Because it is either the universe is expending or not expending. Can you say it is a 50/50 guess on the part of Higgs when he said there is a God particle. Because it is either there is, or there is not. Or can you say it is a 50/50 guess on the part on the Greek philosophers who held that universe is composed of atoms. Because it is either they are or are not composed of atoms.
Garbonzo, reducing these to a mere probability will strip these learned people of any conscious effort and knowledge obtained through careful observations and experimentation to know what they know. Of course, we can reduce almost everything to probability. Does that mean when can not make informed decisions based on the knowledge we have.
Job is said to have his knowledge from God. Thats what we believe. And I believe that 100%.
The Earth is flat. That’s why it rests on pillars and hangs on nothing. Google flat earth.
Stars are in the firmament. Sun and moon are under the firmament. Sun and moon move parallel to flat earth and move independently from each other. Antartica is the outer ring, holding in the water. Check out “Antarctica treaty”. No autonomous expeditions are allowed in Antarctica because that is where the sky (dome) meets the ground. “Admiral Byrd” “operation high jump”, “operation deep freeze”. “Andrea Barnes”. THE EARTH IS FLAT AND MOTIONLESS. 4fourMonkeys@gmail.com
I’ve been to Antarctica. Sorry, no dome.
The earth is indeed flat but I do not know if the correct shape is circular with antarctica being the outer ring. It could be, but we’re not sure yet.
The Earth is flat
4fourMonkeys@gmail.com
So every astronaut is in on the conspiracy? You can prove the Earth is not flat by sending a camera up in a balloon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqPqtQrtn5Q
Plus countless other videos like it.
Hi Garbonzo, that’s a wide angle lens with distortion. It creates a curve effect on purpose in order to see more around you. If you pull the camera down, the earth will look concave, if you pull it up, the earth will look convex. If it is in the middle, it will look straight/flat. If you really believe that video, then you would believe that the earth is a globe only from going up 1 KM (as you see in the video). If there ever was a curve, you would not be able to see it until you’re higher than many KMs or so. I’ve been on many airplanes and have never seen the earth curved.
Either way, you need to see high quality footage such as this: https://youtu.be/WwimocU0IIc?t=3m56s
When done, go back to minute 2 and notice how it curves upward (concave). All of that is lens distortion. Nasa and other space agencies release composite pictures (photoshopped) of everything “out there”. They are CGI and they admit it. Who is taking a picture of a “satellite” that is taking a picture of a “planet”?
Notice how close the sun is 🙂 It is not a fireball as Nasa has so thoughtfully created using computer programs. Look at real pictures of the sun. Look at the sun with your own eyes when it is setting, it is beautiful.
The earth is 100% flat. If it was not, all water would flow downward and fall out of the earth (look at rivers and how they work, or streams of water; water does not flow upward) yet in their globe, it would.. lol. Look at your bathtub, what happens when it overflows? Water falls out. If the earth were a ball, the waters would have fallen out. There is no gravity, it is the big “G” (check out freemasons and their love for that letter), and is a lie to try to explain all their lies.
The moon’s phases are not caused by the earth’s shadow. Twice this week my wife and I have seen both the sun and the moon out at the same time. How would the earth cause a shadow ;)? Imagine a flat plain, with 2 lights above. The book of Enoch says that the moon recharges using the sun’s light and then depletes. A perfect way for God to show us phases, to know the beginning of a month.
The Bible makes a lot more sense now that I know that the earth is flat.
Dear anonymous,
You are trying to put human logic into the Bible. Never try to bring God down to our level. You will only confuse and frustrate yourself and begin to question yourself as you are currently doing.
As Christians, we know the bible is 100% inspired by God and if God told Job the world hangs on nothing and He wrote it in his Bible, I accept that 100% by my faith in God.
You want proof? Scientific proof? Remember, scientific proof has to have a foundation of truth. Proof is only convincing ourselves that something is true. Secular scientist have no true basis to place their discoveries without God allowing us to know it.
Prior to Darwin, science was based upon Christian values. I wonder how much farther we would be if it had stayed that way. Way to screw things up Darwin…a man of no scientific background, college dropout and absolutely nothing to based his “thoughts” upon. He has not proof, no education to base book only to realize later that he didn’t believe it either.
Christianity and the bible you read has be around for thousands of years…Darwinism, around 1955.
Was just reading my bible and felt so inspired with Job 26….then found this blog. 😦 Oh, My! The tricks of the devil never cease to amaze me! The devil wants to plant a seed of doubt in my mind, after having just received a wonderful revelation from God! Be gone, DEVIL!!
Oh Bran.
I’m sure you’ll never return to this site (afraid you’ll become “deceived”), but in case you do, let me ask you this: what would’ve happened if you never questioned Santa Clause? Or if you were born into another religion, and refused to ever speak with Christians? Afraid they would deceive you? Wisdom is not gained from reading one book and then shunning all others; wisdom comes from learning everything you can — even when you disagree with those opinions — and then drawing your own conclusions. (As difficult as that may be.)
I know you think I’m the deceiver, but think about it: have I tried to sell you any bullshit-sounding stories? Stories involving talking snakes, or talking donkeys, or talking bushes? Or global floods, with arks filled with all the animals in the world? Or tried to convince you that giant fish can swallow men and spit them up on shore days later? Or told you tales of Egyptian plagues, and magically parting seas, and bread that magically falls from the sky? Or tales of men who lose their superpowers if you cut their hair? You are willing to believe ALL OF THIS — ALL of these stories that you would consider absolute nonsense if you were hearing them for the first time today — and yet I’M the one who is trying to deceive you?? To me, that just sounds nuts.
Which is more likely, that men should lie and tell tall tales, or that the world is a magical place where all these stories are true? Look at any culture, and you will find stories of origins, gods, and miracles. How can you look at these and say, “These crazy stories are obviously all made up… but MY crazy stories are ALL TRUE!”?
Having doubts or questions isn’t a BAD thing. I’m not asking for you to reject God or Christianity, just to understand the opposition… and not be so quick to judge them as “agents of Satan.”
Hugs and kisses,
500Q 😉
Y’all forget that later on (same chapter) Job also describes a circular Earth as well as the creation account. And he also describes that clouds form from the major bodies of water, followed by his amazement at how they stay high in the sky with all that water weight. It’s a fairly scientific statement. It’s true that he may have already known this by observation, but the book is to display how marvelous the world is.
Y’all forget that the word used for “circle” was as in a sundial, or a pancake — flat and round. There was a Hebrew word for sphere, or ball, but that was not the one that was chosen.
The Bible also contains entirely UNscientific ideas. For example, according to Genesis 30:38-39, if you place sheep or goats in front of stripes while they mate, this will cause them to have speckled or spotted offspring (Genesis 30:38-39).
Muslims also claim there are many “scientific facts” contained in the Quran. If that’s the case, should we take the Quran as scripture?
There are so many truly amazing scientific facts that the Bible COULD have easily used to illustrate that was authored by God (see Question #14 for a list), but the few it contains are either probable, based on observation, have been read into the text, or completely wrong (and thus ignored, or rebranded as “miracles!”).
500Q
The pillars mean the gravitational pull of all other bodies that keeps the earth in its orbits….its place. Thats what it is and agrees well with the verse
Hi Brume,
With all due respect, this is quite an explanation, one that requires quite an incredible amount of shoehorning.
Many early Christians concluded (based on the Bible) that the earth must be the center of the Universe (and some still believe it). I don’t think ANY early Christians suggested the sun was the center of our universe, and somehow acts as a “pillar” that pulls (not supports) the earth, preventing it from spinning off into space. Metaphorically speaking, the earth is more like a rock being spun in a circle at the end of a string, with the sun in the middle acting as the hand that keeps it from flying off.
Your conclusion can ONLY come with the benefit of hindsight; once we know what the truth actually is, we find ways to read those facts into the Bible. (If you have any doubt about this occurring, just look at all the different explanations that people have given above for the meaning of “pillar”. Pillars are whatever you want them to be.) The same kind of shoehorning occurs regularly with other religious and other prophetic texts/messages.
Take care,
500Q
You should get rid of the globe earth picture on your website because if the earth is on pillars, it certainly can’t be a globe. If it was we would find the pillars. No my friend, the earth is flat just like the Bible says it is. You can see the full study at ItsHisStory.com/globe.
I would REALLY like to believe this site is a joke, as it takes stupidity to a whole new level. The lengths some humans will go to to continue living in denial never ceases to amaze me.
500Q
Well if that’s the way you see it then look in the mirror because what you just said applies to you.
Just out of curiosity, if you really do believe the earth is FLAT, how do go about explaining photos from the International Space Station? Hell, NASA even streams live video from the ISS, you can watch it here:
And what of satellite photos from various countries, and testimony from astronauts from around the world, and those who have traveled up high enough to see the curvature of the earth? How do we fly and sail around the earth if it’s flat? Or calculate the trajectory of all our satellites? And what does NASA (and everyone else) have to gain by faking all this evidence?
The amount of denial it takes to try and explain one’s way around all this evidence is utterly astounding, but no less than what I’ve observed religious people trying to do in defense of their religion. But perhaps I have misunderstood your position, if so, please explain.
500Q
Camera trickery at its best :). Do you know Nasa works extremely close with Disney and Hollywood? There is so much CGI mixed with real images, mixed with augmented virtual reality that you will believe anything they show you. Open your eyes and take a ball in your hands, now place it under your feet, now try to walk on its sides without falling. Then, place water on top of that ball and try to keep that water flowing all around the ball. Now imagine oceans of water.
Now since you believe in gravity, try to walk on your ceiling.
This has nothing to do with “religion”. This has to do with using your eyes and mind.
Only problem I have with the ”pillar” theory is…………..What are the pillars sitting on?
Biblical literal interpretations usually produce great success for archeology, Biblical archeology, sciences with applied mathematics or geometry. Ancients had great wisdom handed down to them to apply such knowledge in lregard to the available resources and inventive applications for whatever they proposed such purpose. Careful consideration of known and constantly discovered earth and outterspace historical archeology and sciences as applied to Biblical text and other historical writings will produce much better, as well as confirmed validity of Bible text.
In case of terms inmJob for the creation of the world there are many posted and good (read carefully but don’t accept every post or word to be totally accurate unless backed by provable archeology or sciences). Remember, cultures have written history from their personal way of speaking or writing from their time in world history. It is good to look Ancient word or term phrases first then build your concept of say, the KJV Bible in our English and present concept of words or terms.
There have been some good postings here which exercise such as commented here. Therefore, here is listed lookups to help understanding. First, ancient Hebrew meaning of “pillars”, then significance of Biblical references to ” pillar or pillars” and in what context such words are used. I.E., going thru the pillars of cloud and fire, pillars of me is or cloud and fire over the tabernacle in the wilderness, pillars in the temple. Now, lookup Double Helix/Tesla Coil/pyramid photos https://www.google.com/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=double+helix+tesla+coil+photo&oq=double+helix+tesla+coil+photo&gs_l=tablet-gws.3…1857.22558.0.22877.29.25.0.4.4.0.454.3709.9j9j1j2j2.23.0….0…1c.1.64.tablet-gws..2.22.2727.u3k5_m8lZ6k and look at a figurative but literal example of a VORTEX OF ENERGY upon which a concept of the earth supported from below by Pillars, can be applied. Also, drawing the line? = equator or a latitude or longitude? Of setting a grid of stabilizing energy systems put in place by giants? Raphim or Ananaki from the rough elliptical planet (herein matter of interpretation and actuaL science). After all there are actual photos of skeletal remains of giants, etc. The angels purposed as messengers or to do the will of God. Perhaps fallen angels trying to work for God in repentance? Or worse, an evil intention to get off earth, once cast down. Bible says, we war against powers on earth and beyond, as well as the authority over such.
There is so much a student of the Bible and learn and continue to learn as all science continue to be revealed. Lookup posts about the earth pyramid grid and study with an open mind. Lookup posts about the original contents configuration orvwhen known as Panagea. Look for the GIF photos which show the expansion of earthb(scientifically proved) or the paleontology/voting maps of why ancient finds are now located in different areas of earth, when originally in confined compact areas of earth.
To be quiet honest it can be mind boggling. It can takemdays of research and study and applying the Bible to come to a realistic picture. Once at a satisfactory point you may find yourself crying for coming to know these things and praising God for His Word and all!of His creation from beginning to end (and yes, apply literal and figurative to Revelations) because, like Daniel, to know the prophecy or the very introduction to what was to come was too much to take that it is overwhelming. Such wisdom comes at the right time in personal relationship to God and when appropriate in world history.
We are little children hungry to understand God’s Word and how it applies to world and eternity, Alpha and Omega. We become like Job questioning God, but Job got no answer from God because God came at Job with great questions to make Job think about “Why” in respect to Job and to all purposed intents of God. In other words, the scientific reasoning thru questions from God to Job were the key to the sciences of creation, within reason of future (perhaps this generation+) having gained sufficient knowledge of actual truths to be able to understand more of God and His Word, then ever before. The one critical point in it all is to never lose faith, belief and joy in the Lord.
When the angels rejoiced and sang at the creation of earth, perhaps so did the pyramid in Giza, lookup the posts about “the singing pyramid” or the resonance energy powers of the kings chamber to preform like a speaker or source of other frequencies. The list of lookup goes on and this post here can not contain such length.
Just keep seeking till satisfied to sufficiently know, the earth and its future is coming to a close and study of Revelations, as applied to world and humanity can be validated by what is being posted thru the library available to a Bible student therein science, archeology, carefully viewed and evaluated VIDEOS and articles, ministry topics (carefully evaluate) and what outterspace. Photos and earth archeology confirm of the Word of God.
Never let fear or doubt of the future limit your studies. Or perhaps, be as a child and accept what God has purposed for those who believe in and await, the glorious appearing of Jesus Christ ( Yashuah Messiah, our greatest gift for life eternal from Yahweh Elohim Olam).
Pardon any odd words resulting from auto spell checker or my own lack to proofread this comment of length. I just had to share my own concept that THE PILLARS that support earth are similar to the concept of ENERGY ORTEX which is part of ancient wisdom of sacred geometry or the origins of all matter.
This Is the stupid writer of above comments. Rate it a F for failing to proofread and correct before posting. TABLET was on low battery. A Person was trying to communicate critical weather conditions today, driving in it and about getting off early from work. So I did myself an injustice by not proofreading. I will correct and post properly tomorrow. Also, I do not consider myself as a pillar the spell checker or my backspacing for hasty corrections really messed up there. So very sorry. Try to make it better tomorrow. Busy now.
Biblical literal interpretations usually produce great success for archeology, Biblical archeology, and the sciences with applied mathematics or geometry. Ancients had great wisdom handed down to them to apply such knowledge in regard to the available resources and inventive know how for whatever they proposed to create. Careful consideration of known and constantly discovered earth and outter space archeology and sciences as applied to Biblical text and other historical writings or findings will usually prove the validity of Bible text.
In regard to terms or phrases in the Biblical book of Job when discussing creation of the world; there are many online postings and good websites, (read carefully but don’t accept every post or word to be totally accurate unless backed by provable archeology finds or sciences). Remember, cultures have written history from their personal way of speaking or writing from their time in world history. It is good to look up words, terms or phrases from definitions of Ancient word or term phrases first; then build your concept of research from that point. I.E., if using The KJV Bible interpreted by our present concept of words or terms, resulting interpretations may not be accurate understanding of how the people were trying to record information at their time in history. Thus, it is of value to understand their terminology.
These topics of research can be helpful to understanding the questions addressed in this particular blog. First, ancient Hebrew meaning of “pillars”, then significance of Biblical references to ” pillar or pillars” and in what context such words are used. I.E., going thru the pillars of cloud and fire, pillars or cloud and fire over the tabernacle in the wilderness, pillars in the temple. Now, lookup Double Helix/Tesla Coil/pyramid photos
https://www.google.com/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=double+helix+tesla+coil+photo&oq=double+helix+tesla+coil+photo&gs_l=tablet-gws.3…1857.22558.0.22877.29.25.0.4.4.0.454.3709.9j9j1j2j2.23.0….0…1c.1.64.tablet-gws..2.22.2727.u3k5_m8lZ6k
and look at a figurative but literal example of a VORTEX OF ENERGY.
It is totally feasible that the PILLARS supporting the earth from below is a fact of quantum physics and the known theory of vortexs throughout all creation. Therein is the logic upon which a concept of the earth supported from below by Pillars, can be applied. Keep in mind it is not my desire to deny God as creator of heaven and earth and all things therein. Often God is spoken of as speaking to the ancients “out of the whirlwind”, again a vortex. Think of a hurrican or tornado or the rotation of earth, plants, galaxies, universe, each is a swirling vortex. Thus, the magnetic polarity and the cosmic vortex suspend earth in nothingness yet support and hold in place by an unseen power of energy. The String Theory is another applicable concept. All these make the existence of God all the more vast and awesome. I believe proving all creation by the one true Yahweh Elohim Olam and not just random collective happens from origins of time until the end of time.
Additional statements of earth’s creation as recorded in Biblical text can be explained with the archeological and sciences known facts. Such remarks as drawing the line upon earth illustrate the concept of equator or a latitude or longitude? Of setting a grid of stabilizing energy systems in place? We’re the mega and monoliths, inclusive of star towers and pyramids the result of labors of advanced pre-earth civilization influence or the mighty capacity of Raphim or Ananaki; travelers from the planet Nibiru; (herein matter of interpretation and actuaL science). After all there are actual photos of skeletal remains of giants, etc. Or were these structures put in place by the angels purposed as messengers or to do the will of God. Perhaps fallen angels trying to work for God in repentance? Or worse, an evil intention to get off earth,after having been cast down. The Bible speaks of many of the aforementioned concepts and truths.
There is so much a student of the Bible can learn and continue to learn as all sciences continue to be revealed and discovered . Lookup posts about the earth pyramid grid and study with an open mind. Lookup posts about the original continents configuration or when the combined landmass of continents was known as Panagea. Look for the GIF photos which show the expansion of earth which has been scientifically or geologically proved. Look for the paleontology/botony and cultural similarity maps of why ancient finds are now located in different areas of earth. This is due to expansion and repositioning of landmasses which split apart some geological, fossil and racial identifiers from original location and shifts them to other areas of the world. But in compacting the landmasses of Laurasis and Gondwannah, to the unified Panagea, the identifying markers come back together to areas of origin.
To be quiet honest it can be mind boggeling. It can take days and even years of research and study and applying the Bible to come to a realistic picture. Once at a satisfactory point you may find yourself crying for coming to know these things and praising God for His Word and all !of His creation from beginning to end.
And, yes, apply literal and figurative interpretation to the Biblical book of Revelations. Because, like Daniel, to know the prophecy or the very introduction to what was to come was too much to take that it is overwhelming. Such wisdom comes at the right time in personal relationship to God and when appropriate in world history.
We are like little children hungry to understand God’s Word and how it applies to our world and eternity. Wanting to understand the beginning and the ending.. We become like Job questioning God and too often expecting an immediate answer or resolving of issues. According to the Biblical book of Job, Job got no answer from God initially, yet God came at Job with great questions to make Job think about “Why” in respect to Job and to all purposed intents of God. In other words, the scientific reasoning, so to speak, in regard to the creation of heaven and earth, thru questions from God to Job were the key to the sciences of creation which have been questioned since generations could first seek answers. Bringing us to this very generation having gained sufficient knowledge of actual truths to be able to understand more of God and His Word, then ever before. The one critical point in it all is to never lose faith, belief and joy in the Lord.
When the angels rejoiced and sang at the creation of heaven and earth. Likewise, perhaps the resonsnce quality of the kings chamber, sang out, from the pyramid in Giza. Lookup the posts about “the singing pyramid” or the resonance energy powers of the kings chamber to preform like a speaker or source of other frequencies. The list of lookup goes on and this post here can not contain such length.
Just keep seeking till satisfied to sufficiently know, the heavens and earth, as well as all living creatures and humankind were created in awesome wonder to praise and glorify the one true Elohim Olam.
Study of Revelations, as applied to world and humanity can be validated by what is being posted thru the library of Bible, books and Internet, all that is available to a Bible student comprehensive of science, archeology, carefully viewed and evaluated VIDEOS and articles, ministry topics (carefully evaluate) and outterspace exploration. Photos and earth archeology are believable confirmation of the Word of God.
Never let fear or doubt of the future limit your studies. Or perhaps, be as a child and accept what God has purposed for those who believe in and await, the glorious appearing of Jesus Christ ( Yashuah Messiah, our greatest gift for life eternal from Yahweh Elohim Olam).
Due to numerous errors and lack of proofreading before posting my comments earlier this week, I have in this posting of comments tried to regain my composure from having been so careless not to proofread the first time. Excuse my embarrassment. My hope is anyone reading this will seek out thru personal devotion and study to learn from The Word of God, from credible articles and persons, find in study the answers to your questions. Be patient and all things in due time, as has been the consoling comment for many generations.
I’d go one step further: people herding goats and sheep would have spent a *lot* of time, out when the moon allows, looking at the stars. So this would have become very clear over time: the entire star field moves over the sky. Stars come up in the east, and fall in the west, as a unified whole. And the next night the *same* stars come up and back down all over again. They wheel around the northern sky (also mentioned in the same part of Genesis). Clearly there has to be a space under the Earth where all the stars – whatever they are – go, and come back again. Which would be pretty amazing to think about, and to show your kids, as you taught them the sky over many nights.
Some Fundamentalists a while ago started rehashing this “proof”, but it only goes to show that ancient goat herders were far better at observing and inferring, than Fundamentalists are; since the latter are unable to grasp that humans could have figured this out by simply observing the sky.
It’s interesting that the Hebrew calendar is primarily based on the actual lunar cycle – the moon’s cycle was very important to people who needed to take the flock farther for grazing when they could, and were limited to a day’s round trip without the moon’s light (many ancient calendars are primarily lunar). And the ‘new moon’ – start of the next month – is directly observable, whereas it requires a lot of careful measuring over many years to establish the annual cycle, and define an accurate reference for it. It seems plainly obvious to me – though not, apparently, to the true devotees of Genesis, such as Ken Ham – that the ages of persons in Genesis (e.g. 900 ‘years’) are measured in lunar cycles. The problem for them, is this: if you don’t know which “year” is which throughout the OT, you can’t really calculate the age of the Earth from all the information in the Bible, can you? And we can’t have that. So 900 year old people, must have been real. Logic.
Likewise the new day begins at sunset in the Hebrew calander – a directly observable event; ‘midnight’ can’t really be defined without clocks.
Greg,
Thank you from an observing Messianic Christian believer. Your comments of the start night sky I have witnessed by watching thru the night while parked at the ocean beach. It is an awesome sight to see and one you will never forget, to watch the rotation of the night sky and stars. Your comments were spot on in many aspects yet so simply put. Again thank you for your addition to this forum. From, RCML
The problem with attributing the “years” to “lunar cycles” is that one of the people in Genesis would have to have had offspring at the ripe age of ❤ years old, or 30 lunar cycles. There are only around 12-13 lunar cycles a year.
Actually, I just looked and it’s not 30 years, it’s 65, which would still make the person too young to have kids (the ripe age of 5).
I would also be interested to hear any explanation of the phenomenon explained on this page: http://s8int.com/articles/268/19/Those-Sophisticated-Cave-Men-Page-12.htm
Check out Dr Walt Browns Hydro Plate Theory.
And his explanation about the crust of the earth and the pillars.
Or check out this DVD
http://store.kgov.com/global-flood-and-hydroplate-theory-blu-ray-dvd-or-download/
YouTube
Thanks for posting this video!!! It was just full of great information! Blessings. Tom
But… The pillars of the earth are nothing. Like, the world DOES have foundations and the foundations hang on space. These verses don’t contradict each other. The pillars of the earth are unseen. The Bible isn’t suggesting physical pillars that the earth sits on, it’s recognizing that the earth is held by something. Which it is. It’s foundation is nothing. These verses agree with each other.
The earth is FLAT. There is zero evidence of the round earth. Research the subject.
Great explanations, thanks
Basing on your quotation from job 9 and Psalms 75 it seems that the pillars of earth are causes of earthquakes which in modern term can be equated to tectonic plates. And basically fits as the foundation of the earth to be the core or these plates…
Please remember, the Bible wasn’t written to be a complete scientific guide to everything that exists in the Universe. It’s a guide written for a life well-lived, it’s a story about God’s love for humanity, and it’s a history of God’s action in the lives of men; not “the universe, a history.” Everything you need to understand relating to it’s purpose (living a life that is pleasing to God and connecting with Him) fills the pages of scripture. Whether you take it literally, metaphorically, or somewhere in between, everything a person needs to know relating to morality and life is there.
Rob gross: I believe the powers that earth are the powers that operate the kingdom of.God. On earth as it is in heaven. There are books available on this as well. They rotate and maintain from a watch throughout the galaxy. As the lightning and the circuit that is his. From one end of the heavens to the other. When you read. The angels are your eye’s. The Urantia book. The Secret if the Saucers by Ray Palmer written for Orfeo Angellucci.1955.The fall of Communism for Jesus God and the Holy Spirit.Psalm18. Forgiveness for what was not known before. And I did not know that before. Or do it. Miracle.
I just had some guy (I think he was actually from a Korean cult) try to witness to me today about this verse while I was sitting at the mall. It really pisses me off that evangelists cherry pick verses like this and try to argue the bible is scientific. I basically told him it was a lucky guess and not science. Wish I had known these contradictory verses in the same book! Thank you for that sir: “Since there are only two possibilities (floating or supported), and both are suggested in the Bible, the Bible has a 100% chance of getting this fact correct (so long as we play down the losing answer). “
There is a Bible verse in Psalms you should look at 🙂 ” God in his great wisdom carved up the oceans, made clouds the drip dew.” basicly evaperation, condensation, and percipitation… what is that one about? Blessing ♡ Have a wonderful day ♡
Hi Melissa,
Proverbs 3:30. I plan to cover it in the future. It’s another one that’s sometimes cited as a proof-text.
The Bible isn’t given credit for discovering the water cycle, and for good reason. There are several verses that cite plainly observable facts that are sometimes lumped together to insist God understood the water cycle. But it’s nothing that would convince someone who isn’t already a believer.
500Q
hello THE EARTH IS CIRCLE FLAT……NOT GLOBE…..
But, the sun and moon are also not supported by pillars, which can be observed. Hmm.
Why God don’t put the the formula in everything he created? Because its too hard for human to comprehend, its just too much. He just wants us to trust him…. Scientist try to find the formula though some gone mad,some not accurate such a shame… we just need humility can we just accept that God’s thought is higher than our thought. He is Love, wisdom , power and justice.
Hello! This is, it seems to me, one of those unfortunate times where such an amazing verse could not possibly be more explicit about a scientific fact, that the skeptic has to come up with strange explanations in their denial. They ask, why doesn’t Scripture give one clear and amazing statement that was ahead of its time? Yet when such one is presented, such as Job 26:7, they seek to falsify what is an otherwise explicit verse. Now, let’s go over the explanations given.
The author writes, “Firstly, the odds of just guessing this fact correctly are pretty good, since either the earth hangs on something, or it does not.” This is just ridiculous. As has been pointed out above, this type of reasoning could be applied to literally any scientific claim. The first person to suggest a heliocentric system was Aristarchus of Samos, but his theory never took hold and geocentrism was preferred by scientists for some reason or another. Now imagine some 5th century BC writer had claimed heliocentrism is true. Such a system went against literally ALL the science of his time, and to reach such a counter-intuitive theory cannot be brushed of as a 50/50 chance. It must have been the result of mind with great scientific/philosophical knowledge to arrive at this conclusion, going against the known intuitive models. The first claim that earth hangs on nothing is found in the 6th century BC philosopher/scientist Anaximenes of Miletus, though his earth was flat. We do not know when exactly the book of Job was written, but that it was pre-Mosaic is well supported, making it the oldest book of Scripture. Here we have Job, or whoever the author was, writing hundreds of years before Greek philosophers even emerged, going AGAINST the common cosmogonies of the pre-Greek ancient world, including that of the Babylonians, Egyptians, and the supposed flat-earth-floating-on-a-vast-cosmic-ocean cosmogony of the ancient Hebrews, supposedly written by some goat herder. The time this was written in, the fact that the author wasn’t even a scientist, all go against this simply being a guess. You give the following reasons as to why he could have written this:
“1) There was nothing visibly tethering the earth to the sky,
2) The sun and moon did not hang on anything, and
3) The sun appeared to go down in the West and rise in the East, and nothing impeded its path (suggesting there was nothing underneath the earth, just as there was nothing under the sun or the moon).”
As to one, I really don’t know what that is supposed to prove. The fact there is no rope going from heaven to earth… what is your point exactly? Since there was no such thing holding the earth to the sky, the conclusion would have been exactly the opposite. Given that earth is not hanging from the sky with ropes or pillars, the earth MUST therefore be resting on something below, perhaps a vast ocean or solid pillars. So #1 argued very well against you. As to two, there is no reason to suppose the unscientific author would compare earth to these, no other author of that time did. As for three, it is thought the ancients believed the stars, sun and moon were simply embedded on a physical dome, so they’d simply go all around it, and there would be no trouble for them to pass through the vast cosmic ocean under the earth as they travel their course through the dome. Most importantly, it interesting to note that there is absolutely no author from around that era that claimed the earth hanged on empty space based on these supposedly obvious signs that even “goat herders” could figure in their times staring at the skies. It took a philosopher in the 6th century BC to first say it. Job went against every cosmogony in his time when stating this fabulous fact, namely that the planet is not supported by water or pillars, but by nothing below it.
So what do we make of the pillars of earth that are sometimes mentioned in Scripture? Considering the delightful fact that these are mentioned in Job too, they must be interpreted in light of Job 26:7. Now, no one here is so incredulous as to think that Job would contradict himself in his very same book. Therefore, both must be true in one sense or another. It is very easy to understand these pillars or foundations as either literal or figuratively without contradicting Job 26:7. Either works. Figuratively, it could just be a metaphor/analogy. The Pulpit Commentary states the figurative view on Job 9:6:
“Verse 6. – Which shaketh the earth out of her place. This is a still more startling figure of speech; but comp. Psalm 46:2; Psalm 68:16; Psalm 114:4, 6. And the pillars thereof tremble. The earth is conceived of, poetically, as a huge edifice, supported on pillars (comp. Psalm 75:3), which in an earthquake are shaken, and impart their motion to the entire building.”
The exegetical Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges tells us the literal interpretation:
“The reference is probably to earthquakes. The earth is conceived as a structure supported on pillars, ch. Job 38:6; Psalm 75:3. The conception was poetical; if the pillars were supposed anything actual, they were probably the roots of the great mountains which extended downwards and bore up the earth, as the part of them above the earth supported the heavens.”
I saw this interpretation above in the comments somewhere. So figuratively, it would simply be comparing the earth to an actual building supported by pillars. Literally, it would simply be referring to the mountains, or perhaps, but less likely, the many layers below the crust of earth. Either of these have to be true so that it is in accordance with Job 26:7, which, by the way, cannot really be interpreted figuratively. I’ve read every main commentary on it, and ALL, even if reaching a different conclusion, interpret it literally, as a figurative interpretation is not really possible considering the content of the verse, or even conceivable. Job 26:7 goes as follows:
“He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.”
Of the first part of the verse, Barnes Notes on the Bible states:
“Over the empty place – על־תהוּ ‛al-tôhû, “Upon emptiness, or nothing.” That is, without anything to support it. The word used here (תהוּ tôhû) is one of those employed Genesis 1:2, “And the earth was without form and void.” But it seems here to mean emptiness, nothing. The north is stretched out and sustained by the mere power of God.”
So Job here was describing how the skies do not rest on anything, the vast void between earth and heaven. The word translated upon is עַל־, al, which means “upon, above, over” according to the NAS Exhaustive Concordance, necessarily, on the top of empty space, above it. Using parallelism, he then goes on to mention how the earth too is suspended over, on top of nothing, over empty space, as literally as the previously mentioned skies are. This thus debunks the last, and without doubt most ridiculous and preposterous idea that Job actually meant that it is supported by nothing *above* the earth, and that the earth being hung over nothing is somehow compatible with it being over something, which no one with any knowledge of ancient Hebrew or hermeneutics would fathom, but I saw entertained by someone up in the comments. It also debunks the idea that the pillars of heaven mentioned by Job, which are the mountains, are to be seen as anything other than an idiom, for if they literally supported the skies, he would not have written that they are supported by nothing, and the same goes for earth. In conclusion, we here have a remarkable anticipation of the discoveries of science. It is an absolute shame that such a beautifully clear passage needs all this typed to be understood by the atheists. However, I think both the author of this blog and I are in agreement that Job does state what it states, the question is whether this is anything surprising. It is. When seen with Job 26:10 in mind as well, we not only have an earth suspended on empty space, but a spherical earth suspended over empty space. “He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.” Just look at an image of earth, and you will see the circle that surrounds the planet, exactly at the boundary between light and darkness, on the surface of the waters, which cover 71% of earth’s surface, and more before. The book of Job truly is a wondrous read, the beauty of its poetry and statements of nature, one of my favorites.
I agree with you my friend. The Earth is actually flat and sits on pillars like the bible says. We can’t depend on what NASA has explicitly told us that the images we see on their site are fabricated, and yet, God’s word is not. ❤
Pillars are references to the government/rule that God set up. The are the ruling statutes that established for us to follow. For one example, the 10 commandments which most of our own laws have been based on. But of course with the desire of man for power, we have set up our own pillars in Washingtons White house and most of the structures that mankind has build for housing its authority over the people. I find that funny. How the metaphor of power, being the pillar, is exactly what mankind physically uses for it construction of the buildings to represent their power. But when things do get chaotic and the world powers do start to go to war against and within themselves and shake it may be God who hold them up or whose keeps standing. So the pillars are not scripture relating to the Earths location in the great abyss of nothing. They are the governmental foundations, the moral foundations the Earths people are set on. Not so much of a coin toss when you distinguish more deeply what is being referred to.
Job said a blasphemy, and then The Lord came to him a whirlwind and rebuked him. He asked him who are to say such things, where wee you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me you have understanding. Where were you when I laid the cornerstone?