If you’ve ever heard a sermon on “How I know the Bible is true,” then you know that prophecy is one of the primary pillars used to support the Bible’s authenticity. You may have also heard that the Bible is unique in its prophetic ability (unlike all other forms of prophecy… which are all hooey… and prove nothing).
But before I delve into specific Bible prophecies, I want to take a look at prophecy in general, and its potential to confirm the Bible and the existence of God.
I figured a good place to start would be to note exactly how many prophecies are in the Bible. Surprisingly, some Christian sources claimed there are hundreds, others numbered them in the thousands, and still others said there were tens of thousands. Apparently, what qualifies as a single prophecy is a bit subjective, but the largest list I could locate that cited actual verses was in the hundreds.
So… what is prophecy?
Prophecy, for our purposes, is simply the ability to accurately predict the future. Because the future is unknown, it’s inferred that someone with prophetic abilities must have a special power, or they are in contact with someone from another realm (e.g. a spiritual realm) where the future is already known. But proving that someone has accurately predicted the future, or that their information is originating from another realm, can be quite challenging.
I believe prophecy could be impressively demonstrated if such a thing actually existed, but there are a lot of non-miraculous explanations would need to be ruled out before we embrace such an extraordinary claim. With that in mind, here’s my own “Top 20 list” of problems facing prophecy.
Top 20 Problems with Prophecy
1) Everyone who’s anyone is doing it
Prophecy is a very popular phenomenon. Nostradamus, astrologers, psychics, palm readers, mediums, cult leaders, fortune cookies, present-day prophets, voodoo priests, religious texts, and your mom’s real estate agent have all claimed to see the future. Regardless of how they do it, the very fact that everyone claims to be able to it should make us skeptical.
2) Prophecies are always made prior to their fulfillment
One of the most obvious problems with prophecy is that the prediction always precedes the predicted event. This can lead to self-fulfilling prophecies, confirmation bias, or people simply lying about a prophecy’s fulfillment.
3) Prophecies are often vague
If a prophecy is too vague, it can take on many different meanings. The more meanings it can take on, the greater the likelihood that someone will find a match.
For this reason, prophecies should be specific, highly improbable, and its meaning should be clearly understood in advance of the event. For example, if someone predicted “On May 12, 2021 at 3:14PST, there will be a 7.2 magnitude earthquake in San Francisco that will kill 665 people… and Cameron Diaz,” that would be very specific (not vague) and highly improvable. Or if a psychic could repeatedly predict upcoming lottery numbers, or give the exact GPS coordinates of missing persons, this would be impressive (and suspicious!)
4) Prophecies can be self-fulfilling
For example, if Warren Buffet predicts the stock market will crash next week, everyone may sell as a result. Or if everyone believes that Israel will become a nation again, they might begin working toward this goal, bringing the prediction to fruition.
5) The prophecy may have been probable
Every prediction will have a certain probability of coming to pass on its own. For example, it means nothing to predict “the sun will rise again tomorrow” or “in the future there will be earthquakes and wars.” If a prophecy is probable, it offers little proof.
6) Prophecies may be based on subtle, but keen observations
A good prophet may just be very observant. For example, before watching a “chick flick” with my wife, I will sometimes joke, “I predict that in the beginning they will fall in love, and then one of them will screw up, and spend the rest of the movie trying to make up for it.” I’m no prophet, I’ve just seen enough chick flicks to observe the pattern.
7) Predictions may take advantage of the power of suggestion
When you read your horoscope, you become aware of what to look for and, as a result, you often find it. However, if I were to hand you last week’s horoscopes, with all of the zodiac signs removed, you’d probably be hard pressed to determine which one was intended for you. Suggestions create expectations, which leads us actively seeking out events or details.
For example, if I tell you you’re going to meet someone in a hat, you probably will. Or if you move into a house that someone says is haunted, this suggestion is going to make everyday noises and events suddenly seem eerie.
And likewise, we have to wonder, if the Old Testament never predicted a coming Messiah, would anyone have looked for one? If new prophets arise even when we’re not actively looking for them, then how much more likely are we to find a Messiah when we are looking?
8) We may be ignoring the failed prophecies due to confirmation bias
We humans naturally seek out and interpret information in ways that reaffirm our preconceptions. This effect is even stronger for emotionally charged issues and deeply entrenched beliefs. We cherry-pick what helps to confirm our existing positions, and we ignore details that do not; we see the “hits” and ignore the “misses.”
For example, Christians often point to the destruction of Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-21) as proof of prophecy, but they ignore (or heavily reinterpret) failed prophecies concerning the destruction and abandonment of places like Damascus and Egypt (Isaiah 17:1 and Ezekiel 29:8-12).
9) We may be reading a prophecy into a text where it was never intended (aka “shoehorning”, “eisegesis”, or “apophenia”)
This practice derives from the human tendency to seek out patterns and relationships, even when no actual correlation exists. As a result, many religions seem to be able to read into the Bible many ideas that support their own very different conclusions.
For example, many Mormons see the following verse as a prophecy concerning the golden plates that Joseph Smith would eventually dig up on the hill Cumorah:
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. — Psalm 85:11
And they also see John 10 as a prophecy about Jesus appearing in the Americas after his crucifixion:
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. — John 10:16
And Muslims see the following verse as a prophecy concerning the coming of the Prophet Muhammad (and not the Holy Spirit, as Christians see it):
Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. — John 16:7
But did the Bible really predict the coming of the Book of Mormon and the Prophet Muhammad? Or were followers of these religions just reading “prophecies” into the existing text? And if Mormons and Muslims can do it, why not Christians?
It’s also vitally important that a prediction be labeled as such from the beginning. In many cases, Jews and Christians disagree over what portions of the Old Testament should be considered prophetic. If we can’t agree on whether or not something was intended as a prophecy in the first place, then there’s a good chance it was selected with the benefit of hindsight. (Meanwhile, all other non-prophetic statements that do not have meaning, are ignored.)
10) A prophecy may have been written after the fact (also known as postdiction or “Vaticinium ex eventu”)
It should go without saying, but to prove a prophecy is authentic, we must be able to prove it was written before the event it predicts.
11) A prophecy may have been edited after the fact
Similar to postdiction, a prophecy may become altered after the event in order to better align with the results. If we don’t have original documentation from before a predicted event took place, it may be impossible to prove that all the details remained unchanged.
12) Failed prophets may have been excluded from the Bible
We really don’t know how many tens, hundreds, or thousands of prophetic texts were excluded from the Old Testament. Perhaps out of a thousand prophetic texts, only a handful made the final cut. If these were selected solely on the basis of accuracy, it is not proof that prophets can predict the future, but rather proof that those living in the future can weed out the losers.
Mutual fund managers have been known to play similar tricks, assembling dozens of funds for the sole purpose of marketing the winners (ergo, “Past performance may not be indicative of future results.”) The never predicted the future, the merely weeded out the losers.
Similarly, if we asked 1,000 people to write prophecies about the future, and in 100 years someone compiled a book (with the benefit of hindsight) featuring only the top 10 most impressive predictions, the resulting book might seem quite extraordinary… if you didn’t know they’d eliminated 990 failed prophets.
13) Prophecies may be translated with bias
Similar to postdiction or editing a prophecy after the fact, often translators can’t help but apply their own bias to a translation. For example, if a translator translates Isaiah 53:5 to read, “He was pierced for our transgressions” instead of the less compelling (but more accurate) “He was wounded for our transgressions,” then he probably has a a certain someone in mind.
14) The person defending a prophecy may be employing a double standard
If we agree to accept prophecy as proof of a claim, then we must also be willing to accept someone else’s prophecy as proof of their claim, otherwise we may be employing a double standard.
For example, if Muslims claim that there are prophecies in the Quran that were fulfilled (and they do), then we must give these prophecies equal weight.
To avoid this problem, some Christians will claim that other prophecies are of the devil, or are a test from God (Deut. 13:1-3). But if competing religions also have accurate prophecies, not only does this make prophecy suspect, but it cannot be used to confirm one religion over another, because you can never be certain which side the real God is on.
For example, the prophet Zoroaster (who founded Zoroastrianism, formerly one of the world’s largest religions) may have been right about Ahura Mazda being the one true god, and the evil Angra Mainyu inspired the authors of the Bible just to test faithful Zoroastrians! Or perhaps the Jews are right, and God sent Jesus as a deception.
15) A prophecy may be considered fulfilled regardless of the outcome
If a prophet says “God will spare your city if you repent,” then he has actually predicted all possible outcomes. If nothing happens, then the prophet has predicted how God would spare the city. If the city is destroyed, he predicted its destruction.
16) The prophet could’ve gotten lucky
Even prophets sometimes get lucky.
For example, in 2006 Pat Robertson prophesied that “something as bad as a tsunami” would hit the Pacific Northwest. And… well… nothing happened. But had something happened, you can bet your life he would’ve played it up on The 700 Club. (And for the record, God didn’t warn Pat that 230,000 Indonesians would die from a tsunami in 2004, or that thousands would die from Hurricane Katrina in 2005. God waited until 2006 to warn Pat of a non-event.)
17) A prophecy might be “eternally pending”
If a prophecy doesn’t have a deadline, it’s practically worthless, because without a deadline, it can never fail. This can make it appear as if a prophet is never wrong, because some of his open-ended prophecies will, by sheer chance, come to pass, while all the others might be perceived as still pending.
For example, it’s been 2,000 years since Jesus said, “I’ll be back,” and this still isn’t considered a failed prophecy. Without a deadline, we’ll never know if this prophecy has failed.
18) Failed prophecies can be reinterpreted as being spiritually, metaphorically, or allegorically fulfilled.
When a specific prophecy literally fails, believers will sometimes claim it was fulfilled spiritually or metaphorically instead of labeling it a failure.
For example, when Harold Camping’s May 21, 2011 rapture prediction failed, he said it was fulfilled spiritually. And when Jesus failed to fulfill a number of Messianic prophecies, his followers simply said he’d fulfilled them spiritually or metaphorically (or they were still pending).
19) A prophecy’s fulfillment may have been lied about
It’s easy to lie about details that are difficult to disprove. For example, if Jesus wasn’t actually born in Bethlehem, or didn’t ride into a donkey into Jerusalem, someone could’ve lied about these events decades later, and no one would’ve been the wiser.
It’s much more difficult to lie about well-known events. For example, you couldn’t lie and say “Jesus became the literal king of Israel!” or “Jesus returned all the Jews to Israel!” or “Jesus brought about world peace!” Because people would know you were lying.
When “easily lied about” prophecies are the only ones being fulfilled, while the “difficult to lie about” prophecies are being fulfilled spiritually, metaphorically or are made eternally pending, it should raise red flags.
20) Prophecies may not be from God
And finally, even if someone could give specific prophecies, it still doesn’t prove that they are in cahoots with God, Satan, or some other spiritual force. It may be a trick, or luck, or aliens, or Ahura Mazda, or an unknown god, or they could’ve found ways to predict or control certain events, or they may be from the future or a parallel universe.
In order for a prophecy to be convincing, it should be:
- understood as a prophecy from the very beginning (not converted into a prophecy in hindsight),
- a highly improbable event,
- well out of human control,
- specific enough that only one event could satisfy it, and this meaning should be understood prior to fulfillment
- fulfilled in a narrow time frame or given a specific deadline,
- fulfilled literally (never spiritually or metaphorically),
- unedited or accurately translated,
- the fulfillment must be extremely well documented (ideally observable),
- and the prophecy should not be grouped with other prophecies that have failed, they should all be successful.
Although impressive prophecies should not be difficult to demonstrate (such as the aforementioned earthquake example), I have yet to see a prophecy that successfully navigated this gauntlet of qualifiers. Typically, they will violate one or more, which allows them to appear impressive, when nothing incredible has happened.
With all the problems facing prophecy, it’s a wonder why God would choose such a questionable medium to qualify his other claims, especially when there are so many other good ways to demonstrate his authority (such as sending fire from heaven, revealing insider information, or responding to prayer on a testable basis).
If God is able to deliver on hundreds of questionable prophecies, but not demonstrate his superiority in any other arena, it would lead me to suspect his prophecies are no better than anyone else’s. I’m willing to examine and remain open-minded about Bible prophecies, but I predict there will be problems.
Well we kinda discussed this before. Depends on how strict criteria you set yourself. Truth is there is no way you can prove supernatural beyond doubt. Like with prophesies. Even some prophesy fulfilled your criteria (some do) there is always a possibility for it being a lucky chance. Or even if it included an supernatural event there is a chance for it being some unknown law of nature that we do not understand yet. So proving bible by prophecies come true has problems and strengths for both the believer and the doubter.
There isn’t a possibility of it being by chance.
Do U really think hundred of Prophecies were all fulfilled by chance?
BHS, Wich prophesies have fullfilled the criteria provided in the post?
– considered messianic by jews until second millennium, after which they changed their mind:
(scroll down to page 3. Second millennium)
– Pre dates Jesus:
Click to access isaiah-53-qumran.pdf
– Is quite a good match for Jesus 😉
Funny you should mention it, I’m working on Isaiah 53 (aka “the suffering servant”) at the moment. It’s definitely the go-to chapter for anyone attempting to provide evidence for Jesus being predicted in advance. I’ll be sure to check out the links.
For now, I’ll just say that even if the Jews DID believe it was 100% messianic — in fact, even if Isaiah stated unequivocally that “In this next song, the servant will be the Messiah, and no longer the nation of Israel… as I’ve previously indicated” — would it really matter? If the NT writers understood it as messianic, it could’ve given them all the more reason to make sure their story fit the messianic descriptions, or more reason to read Jesus into Isaiah 53 and make it about him.
The fact that the NT writers were even aware of Isaiah, and the fact that we could even have a debate over who Isaiah was talking about, doesn’t bode well for the quality and specificity of the underling claim. But it should make for some interesting conversation. 😉
If they doctored the Bible to fit the message there would have been some claim against. But history has none. So Jesus most likely died on the cross. Thus we get to mr. Lewis’s point. Lord, liar or lunatic.. Take your pick.
Just because no counter-claim exists doesn’t guarantee it’s a true story. For example, we don’t claim that Heracles must’ve really slayed the Nemean lion because no counter-claims exist. Any objections to this myth may have never been written down, or may have been lost to history.
“Lord, liar, lunatic” is a false trichotomy, a logical fallacy that suggests Jesus could ONLY be one of three options. Jesus may have also been “legend.”
I tend to believe that Jesus WAS a real person who was executed on a cross. He may have not have been an all-out lunatic, but an intelligent man with a messiah complex. It happens. Jim Jones, David Koresh and Marshall Applewhite are just 3 modern examples of intelligent men who developed a messiah complex. They too died for their beliefs, and were able to convince others to die for them. If such things happen today, they surely happened 2000 years ago. The only difference is that the Jesus story has had 2000 years to catch on (and began with a less educated audience).
Jesus’s believers, having difficulty convincing others that Jesus was any different from all the other messiahs at the time, could’ve added a few legendary details (miracles), and mined the OT for verses they could link back to him. They also could’ve adapted his story to fit OT prophecy.
Well everybody needs to make their mind in this issue. A lunatic is one option. Even if he was a lunatic I’m still with Him because I see the changing power of christianity all the time. (now I’m NOT talking about political “christianity”. Different story)
Who knows? Maybe the neo orthodox are right:
“The Bible is merely a witness to revelation or becomes revelation in encounter. The Bible itself is not absolute, divine revelation. Black marks on a white page can never be revelation in and of themselves.”
Certainly a long way from envangelical position but a possibility. We’ll know for sure after we die.
Lunatic is an option but it fails. Liar doesn’t work either. Lord is the best option.
“The Bible is merely a witness to revelation or becomes revelation in encounter. The Bible itself is not absolute, divine revelation. Black marks on a white page can never be revelation in and of themselves.”
That is all your opinion. The Bible is inerrant, it has no errors. And yeah it is absolute.
Obama against Putin, West against East, NATO against the Communists.
Nothing new under the sun, or what? It’s important to understand the signs of our time:
– God created the world in six days, 6000 years since Adam.
– Enoch was raptured and Noah saved by tribulation.
– Hebrews return to Israel.
– Israel soon 70 years.
– Plagues, the fourth seal
– Bloodmoons, the sixth seal.
– The Temple in Jerusalem.
– Conflict East against West.
– World divides into 10 regions.
– Mark of the Beast –> spiritual death?
– The very last Pope (St. Malachy prophecy).
– Chrislam is moving on.
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I have a couple of slight problems with some things you said regarding prophecy.. You said in problem #2 that “One of the most obvious problems with prophecy is that the prediction always precedes the predicted event.”.. How is that a problem? If the prediction didn’t come before the predicted event happened, then it wouldn’t be a prophecy now would it? You can’t make a prediction(prophesy)about an event after the event has already happened.. You then contradicted yourself on problem #2 in problem #10 when you said “To prove a prophecy, we must be able to prove it was written before the event it predicted.” Any idiot knows that everything in the Old Testament was written hundreds of years, and some of it close to two thousand years, before the birth of Christ and the authoring of the New Testament.. So, proof of prophecy in the Old Testament is self evident..
Next is problem #11.. You said “A prophecy may also have been doctored after the prophesied event.” Really??? I assume you are referring to Biblical prophecy, because this blog is called 500 Questions about God & Christianity.. So, how do we know that prophecy wasn’t and hasn’t been doctored after the fact? You do realize that you are talking about an omnipotent God right? When you speak of God you are speaking of unlimited power and authority.. His power is infinite, there are no limits to God’s omnipotence.. Do you think that an omnipotent God who created the entire universe and everything in it, including time itself, is incapable of making sure that His written word remains unadulterated, complete and absolute down through the ages? Yes, He’s up to the task.!
You say you’re looking for evidence to support your failing faith in God, but your faith isn’t failing, you don’t have any faith for it to fail.. God, being so ultimately powerful, merely spoke the universe and it’s entirety into existence, but you don’t think he is powerful enough to insure that His word remains complete and unchanged for all people of all times? That’s not failing faith, that’s total absence of faith.. He’s more than capable of keeping His word perfectly intact.. “But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” (Matthew 14:27-31) … He’s reaching, you might ought to take His hand!
His word hasn’t been doctored or changed in any way… How do I know? Because if it was changed in any way at all, then God wouldn’t be omnipotent and if God wasn’t omnipotent, that would make Him a liar and we know God can’t lie… His word tells us He is omnipotent, there’s nothing He cannot do.. ” And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.” (Revelation 19:6)
If you don’t think He can make sure His word remains pure always, you need to reassess your faith.. He has kept His word unchanged, except for it being translated from Greek and Hebrew, but He made sure the translation remained pure… The Lord promised that the Gospel would be preached unto the whole world, that everyone would hear and have a chance to receive salvation.. For this to happen and for Him to keep His promise, the Word of God, originally written in Hebrew and Greek had to be translated.. He has eternally known this, just like the Word has been and always will be with Him eternally..
Hi Will, thanks for reading and writing. I will attempt to address your concerns.
On the first objection, you are correct in saying a prophecy must come before it is fulfilled. This is a paradox of prophecy: once you establish an expectation, people can either make it come to pass, or find ways of insisting it was fulfilled (especially if they are driven by religious motivation).
Something similar happens with horoscopes. We read our horoscope, and then confirmation bias makes certain events stand out it our mind, seemingly confirming the horoscope. But the horoscope didn’t really predict the future for everyone of a certain sign, it just made certain events stand out. Additionally, we remember the “hits” and ignore all the “misses.”
Because the ability to see the future is an extraordinary claim, it requires some extraordinary evidence. This is why we MUST insist that prophecies be extremely improbable, specific, and the prediction and fulfillment well documented.
For example, if any Christian is willing to give me a list of winning lotto numbers in advance (you can just list them here, all posts are time-stamped), I would gladly accept this as proof of your ability to communicate with a God who sees the future. This kind of prediction is be specific, improbable, and would be reasonably well documented. Unfortunately, Biblical prophecies are far more problematic. They are often vague, or can have many possible meanings, or could be written or modified after the events, and so on.
On the second objection, I’m operating under the assumption that the Bible was NOT inspired by God, and I would like to see if the Bible can stand on its own merit.
We cannot insist that we can know the Bible is inspired by God because of its prophecies, and then insist that those prophecies were never modified because they were inspired by God. We end up having a conversation like this:
“How do you know the Bible was inspired by God?”
“Because of the prophecies!”
“How do you know the prophecies were never edited?”
“Because they were inspired by God!”
With messianic prophecies, I’m finding they are often: 1) not prophecies at all, but turned into prophecies (in hindsight) because they loosely relate to something Jesus did; 2) ARE prophecies, but were clearly never intended as messianic; or 3) are so vague that many different meanings can be assigned to them.
By the same measure we (as Christians) judge the false prophecies of others (and other religions), this same measurement should also be applied to the Bible. If the Bible fails these tests, we know we are being biased because of our religious faith.
Great thkiginn! That really breaks the mold!
“If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.”
-Inscription on the “Get Out Of Prophecy Free Card” 2014 Parker Bros. Jesus-Monopoly Edition.
Personally, I prefer the “Community Chest” deck (I mean who doesn’t love 2nd prize and $10 in the beauty contest?) but drawing from the “Chance” pile is fun too for what it’s worth.
Peace be with you,
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Thank you for your article. It’s interesting to read and I think your arguments are pretty accurate. I also think your claim about comfirmation bias was partly wrong and at this point wrong.
You point out Ezekiel 29:8-12 claims that Egypt will be completely destroyed and the evidence of Egypt today disproves this prophecy. Although it’s true Ezekiel spoke of the destruction of Egypt, he pointed out in verse 15 that Egypt will return as a poor country (the basest of kingdoms), not being able to rule over other countries anymore.
Also you quoted Isaiah 17:1 about the destruction of Damascus. Please have a minute to google damascus destroyed 2016 and see the images.
I’m wondering what your thoughts about these points are. If you have some more examples of cities that have been predicted to be destroyed please share them with me. I’m a neutral researcher and want to obectively investigate the bible.
“They destroyed the key Syrian city of Damascus and occupied most of the ancient kingdom of Israel (732), with its northern regions becoming Assyrian provinces. “
Hi imactuallyprettydecent, interesting questions, I’ll give it a go.
“Also you quoted Isaiah 17:1 about the destruction of Damascus. Please have a minute to google Damascus destroyed 2016 and see the images.”
One would be hard-pressed to find a major middle-eastern city that hasn’t seen warfare over the past 2000 years. Because Isaiah gives us no deadline for this event, the prophecy is open-ended, which means it can never fail. It is either eternally pending fulfillment, or it is eventually fulfilled (because it would’ve happened eventually, anyway).
But I don’t believe this prophecy is being fulfilled, because the verse states that “Damascus is taken away from being a city.” The verse that follows also seems to reinforce the idea that the city will never rise again.
Fast forward 2000 years, and Damascus is still a city, with a population of over 1.7 million people. While many have fled due to the war, I have no doubt that Damascus will rise again (just as it has fallen and risen in the past).
It’s worth noting that there are believers who claim this prophecy was fulfilled long ago (at least according to their own interpretations) and that today’s events have nothing to do with the prophecy (see: https://americanvision.org/9371/isaiah-17-damascus-bible-prophecy-has-been-fulfilled).
“Although it’s true Ezekiel spoke of the destruction of Egypt, he pointed out in verse 15 that Egypt will return as a poor country (the basest of kingdoms), not being able to rule over other countries anymore.”
Verses 10-12 reads:
“Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years…”
If we assume this event has occurred, at what point was Egypt laid waste and uninhabited “from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia” for 40 years?
Since there is no historical evidence for a 40 year abandonment of Egypt, believers are forced to either 1) try to suggest it did happen despite the evidence, 2) reinterpret the prophecy to make it fit other events) or 3) insist this open-ended prophecy is still pending… just like the prophecy concerning Damascus. Hope springs eternal! 🙂
Thank you for responding:) Sorry for my late response as well. I am currently like you investigating the bible whether we can say if the bible is inspired or not. I think there are a lot of good/beautiful passages in the bible we all can learn from, but I wonder if it’s intellectual justified to use it as a definitive guideline for life.
You make some good points and I agree that you that hanging faith on open ended prophecies shouldn’t give you much confidence for those believes. The thing is, you used these prophecies to question believing in fulfilled prophecies, accusing them of cherry picking to validate their believes. Of course its questionable to believe in the prophecy of Egypt and Damascus, because other prophecies seemed to be fulfilled. But on the other hand, it’s not possible to question the other fulfilled prophecies because there is an absence of evidence for these specific prophecies. This would only work if it were to be proved that these prophecies weren’t fulfilled and weren’t able to be fulfilled at all (when the bible would give a deadline: “the city would never be rebuild after 100 BC”). (AKA ‘Argument from ignorance’)
I know that the bible is unfortunally not that specific, so it’s quite hard to figger out (the bible claims it does this to separate the righteous from the unrighteous), but I wonder this; the claim that the (let’s assume) ‘original’ city of Tyre will never be rebuild (be it after the attack of the muslims), and the fact that that part of the city hasn’t been rebuild is pretty special right?
Or not? I mean if not, do you know some cases of cities that have never been rebuild without a prophecy about these? Is it a common thing for ancient cities to be never rebuild (so that the prophecy is a coincedence)?
In my humble opinion, Tyre was never destroyed (and thus could never be rebuilt), and this is where the story ends.
It is a stretch to say the prophecy was ONLY about mainland Tyre, and impossible to prove which part of mainland Tyre was once a city that was never rebuilt (because it was so well cleared). But I don’t think it’s even necessary to go there.
Often the simplest road is the better one. Regarding prophecies and the Bible in general, it’s simpler to investigate whether the New Testament actually contains the words and actions of Jesus Christ. If not, then one goes on with his life. If the NT is judged accurate and (and of course, one must first judge if the analysis of the expert(s) is trustworthy or at least beyond a reasonable doubt) then one would accept that the NT accurately records the words and actions of Jesus. And from there, we go to C. S. Lewis’ ‘choose whether Jesus is a legend, liar, looney or Lord.’ One can’t call him a liar if one accepts that his character is beyond reproach (looney and legend are likewise similarly dealt with). In brief, Jesus claimed to be God. And he then exhibited powers over the physical world, including the power over death. Insofar as evidence of the resurrection (as one example) goes, Sir Lionel Luckhoo and Simon Greenleaf are good starting points. They both conclude that Jesus is who he says he is. And from there, we then go to Jesus’ confirmation of the entire Bible.. For example, he spoke of Adam as a real person; likewise Noah and many others. “They have Moses and the Prophets.” Regarding prophecies or any other contradictions or dilemmas one may believe are there: if we accept (for ourselves) that Jesus is actually God, then his validation of the Bible checkmates any difficulties we may have with the Bible.
Thank you for your well-worded response. (Note: I believe C.S. Lewis said “LUNATIC, Liar, or Lord” — though I’ve always thought he should’ve included “Legend,” as it’s just as plausible as the other three, if not more so.)
If I understand your argument correctly, it’s that it is easier to reach a conclusion about Christianity by starting with the claims of the New Testament, which if found to be reliable, would demonstrate the divinity of God (as evidenced by his miracles).
Prophecy and miracles are both important pieces of evidence used by Christians to establish the authority of the Bible and meet the burden of proof (well, as much proof as one is allowed under a faith-based religion, anyhow).
It may very well be true that considering these claims FIRST would bypass any need to research much further, but I suppose I’m working up to those bigger claims. (If I were to cover them first, the rest would just be small-potatoes.)
Really, there is not much rhyme or reason for the order of these questions, at least not at this point. I just pick whatever seems interesting at the moment.
So as much as I’d like to respond to these important claims, I want to give each of them their proper due. But I’ll get there.