57. What about Pascal’s Wager? Why risk going to hell?

1024px-Blaise_Pascal_VersaillesBlaise Pascal was the seventeenth-century French philosopher and mathematician who famously argued that, in the absence of conclusive evidence, it was better to wager that God existed, since you had everything to gain and little to lose.

Pascal writes:

Let us then examine this point, and say, “God is, or He is not.” But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up. What will you wager?… If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.

Pascal’s Wager appeals to us because it isn’t unreasonable to take precautions against a potential consequence, even when evidence is lacking. With eternal life on the line, even if there is only a small chance that God exists, doesn’t it makes sense to err on the side of caution, just in case?

Claims and Consequences

Pascals Wager can be broken down into two parts: a claim and a consequence. The claim is that God exists and wants us to believe in him and repent; the consequence is that he will reward us (or punish us) based on how we respond to this claim.

Lets take a closer look at each of these two parts.


When someone makes a claim that might be called into question, it’s their responsibility to meet the burden of proof. This is just a practical matter, since it’s all-too-easy to make up all sorts of claims.

For example, I could claim that:

  • there are six invisible aliens living in your colon;
  • your mom had a secret affair with Mr. T.;
  • God is currently living as a lesbian in the Bronx;
  • only whales and kangaroos get into heaven;
  • all lawyers go to hell; and
  • Einstein was born with an invisible Siamese twin hermaphrodite attached to his ankle that had to be removed by a voodoo priestess.

The list of things that could be claimed is endless, and because these claims can be difficult to prove, the burden should not be placed on you to prove all of them.

It annoys me that the burden of proof is on us. It should be: “You came up with the ideas. Why do you believe it?” I could tell you I’ve got superpowers. But I can’t go up to people saying “Prove I can’t fly.” They’d go: “What do you mean ‘Prove you can’t fly’? Prove you can!’
–Ricky Gervais

The more extraordinary the claim, the more important it is to have good evidence. For example, I could claim that my cat once had kittens, and I could claim that my cat once had puppies. The latter claim is going to demand a lot more evidence than the former, because it’s so incredibly extraordinary.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
–Carl Sagan (1934-1996)

It is nothing short of extraordinary to claim that invisible supernatural beings exist, and that one in-particular has always existed without cause; and that he is omniscient, and omnipresent, and created everything out of nothing, and a part of him came to earth through a virgin, and this part of him performed many impossible miracles, and walked on water, and raised the dead, and he sacrificed himself (to himself) to save everyone from eternal suffering. This is the claim Pascal is making, and such a fantastic claim demands extraordinary evidence.

Using excuses used to avoid falsification

If a claim cannot be proven true, it’s equally important that it at least be falsifiable, so that (either way) the truth can eventually be known. Falsifiability is also important because its all too easy to make excuses, in order to render a claim unfalsifiable.

Carl Sagan gives the example of claiming to have a dragon in his garage, but when you go to see it, he claims it’s invisible, incorporeal, and blows a heatless fire that will not register on any scale. Sagan makes an extraordinary claim, and then quickly renders it unfalsifiable to prevent anyone from falsifying his claim. (But unlike Christianity, Carl doesn’t insist that if you don’t believe in his dragon, you will suffer horribly for eternity.)

Similarly, Christianity excuses itself from having to meet the burden of proof by saying that God has intentionally obscured all the evidence in order to preserve free will. This is a very creative excuse, but is it actually true? Or was this excuse engineered to avoid having to meet the burden of proof, and to make the claim impossible to falsify?

Inventing GodsConsider for a moment that every god in the history of the world also refuses to reveal itself to you. (Isn’t that an amazing coincidence!?) Baal, Zeus, Ahura Mazda, Vishnu, Thor, the Flying Spaghetti Monster — they all have good excuses for not appearing to you. Even if it’s claimed that they once appeared to people, they will most certainly have an excuse for not appearing to you right now.

And gods are not the only ones excusing themselves from having to meet the burden of proof. Just about every spirit, monster, UFO alien, sasquatch, fairy, leprechaun, chupacabra, and unicorn has an excuse for not providing proof. It’s never that they don’t exist, it’s always because they are rare, or invisible, or small, or elusive, or on vacation, or they want you to do something before they will reveal themselves, or there is a government conspiracy covering them up.

The God of the Jews is no different; instead of providing any real proof, we hear lots of excuses for why the burden of proof can never be met.

Evidence and reason are all we have to work with when it comes to determining truth, and once we begin to accept excuses in place of facts, we obligate ourselves to accept many other unsubstantiated claims.


Having excused itself from having to meet the burden of proof, and making it impossible to falsify its claims, Christianity then warns us of severe consequences for not believing.

KnockAppealing to consequences in this way is considered a logical fallacy, because it places the crux of the argument on the consequence(s) rather than the evidence. This tactic is frowned upon because: 1) it doesn’t provide any new evidence, 2) it attempts to motivate through fear rather than facts, and 3) it’s just as easy to invent consequences as it is claims (and if you don’t believe me, your teeth will fall out!).

While it’s entirely possible that the consequences of an unsubstantiated claim might be real, consequences are often used to manipulate others, and so we must be on guard against their misuse, especially when the consequences are associated with extraordinary claims.

Superstitious Claims and Consequences

Superstitions operate on the same basic principals as Pascal’s Wager: they too make a claim that is difficult to disprove, and then appeal to consequences to motivate others to action. For example:

  • You should throw spilled salt over your shoulder to prevent demonic temptation.
  • If you walk under ladders you will have bad luck.
  • If you break a mirror you will have seven years bad luck. (Unless you throw a shard into a south-flowing river.)
  • You should pass along that chain letter to improve your luck; breaking the chain will bring bad luck.

Likewise, Pascal’s Wager says: “You should believe in God to have eternal good luck; if you don’t believe you will have eternal bad luck.”

Consider the chain letter. It’s obvious that the original author invented consequences as a way to motivate others to distribute his letter. The consequences of Christianity may have been invented for similar reasons, because they work to motivate others to believe in Christianity, and then pass it along.

One distinct difference between Christianity and superstition is that Christianity’s consequences are carried out indefinitely. While the severity of a consequence does not add one iota of proof to the original claim, the perceived risk is much greater, which provides more motivation to believe.

So Pascal’s Wager (and Christianity) not only skirts around the burden of proof, but by making claims of eternal consequences, it manages to inject the maximum amount of urgency into its claim without providing any additional evidence. What’s more, because the consequences do not become apparent until after you’re dead, neither the original claim nor its consequences can be falsified — you can’t prove it, you can’t disprove it, and the consequences are the most extreme imaginable. (Brilliant!)

The Problem of Mohammad

But by the same logic, Pascal could’ve just as easily wagered for belief in Islam:

Let us then examine this point, and say, “Mohammad is God’s prophet, or Mohammad is not.” But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here…. Wager, then, without hesitation that Mohammad is God’s prophet.

Muslims too believe they have good evidence, and after 1,500 years of trying, Christians have failed to disprove this evidence to the satisfaction of over a billion Muslims.

Seeing as how the evidence remains inconclusive, Pascal’s logic dictates that we play it safe, and wager that Mohammad was God’s prophet… just in case. But we cannot wager on both Christianity and Islam, because each is mutually exclusive, and this is where Pascal’s logic begins to unravel.

But what if you’re wrong?

Assuming Pascal is correct, and God will condemn us to hell for not believing, then we must ask ourselves: “Is it then morally right to submit to a God who would do such a thing?”

This situation is a bit like living under a dictator who insists that you serve him or be put to death. Do you join him? Do you help him kill others who refuse to join? Or would you rather die than partake in actions you believe to be immoral?

While we’d all like to think we’d take the moral high ground, history and scientific experiments (e.g. the Milgram experiment) have shown that most of us will check our moral compass at the door and submit to whomever is in charge (our species is pretty pathetic that way). I suspect the same thing occurs with God: because God is all-powerful and in charge, “might makes right,” and we don’t give much thought to the morality of his actions.

But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.
–Luke 12:5

Believers will sometimes argue that because we are God’s creation, he has the right to do whatever he wants with us (including throwing us into hell forever). But is that morally right?

If it turns out that aliens are responsible for creating us, and they return next Tuesday to enslave and torture us, do they have the moral authority to do so?

Or if a scientist creates a living being, fashioned from something other than DNA but still capable of experiencing pain, does that give him the right to torture it? Would you stand idly by as he jabbed hot pokers in its eyes, defending his actions by saying, “It’s okay, because he created it!” Will you stand there in Heaven, watching as Satan jabs hot pokers in my eyes, saying, “It’s okay, because God created him!”

Hell Viewing Station

If it is true that God allows people to be tortured, I believe it is morally wrong to submit to such a God, for several reasons.

First, I believe (as the Bible says) that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us (Matt. 7:12). I do not wish to burn in hell forever, nor do I believe God would wish this punishment upon himself if the situation were reversed.

Second, if punishment must exist, it should fit the crime. Eternal punishment for a finite crime is infinitely excessive, gratuitous, and therefore evil. 

And finally, if punishment must exist, it should serve a purpose. To punish people without any end-goal in mind is pointless. Even if this punishment succeeds in teaching them a lesson, they can no longer do anything about it. Their endless tears of regret and screams for mercy cannot possibly bring about more justice after that point. This is not justice, and certainly not the actions of a loving creator.

Strange a God who mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness, then invented hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none Himself; who frowns upon crimes yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man’s acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon Himself; and finally with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship Him!
–Mark Twain

If it’s true that God knows the future, and hell really does exist, then his story is not about the few he managed to save, but about the majority he knew would be lost. Even if God did not know what would happen, he should’ve learned from Adam, or at least by Noah’s time, that mankind and free will were not a good combination. God gambles with the souls of men, knowing most will be lost.

The God of hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn.  A god who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved; cursed, not worshiped.  A heaven presided over by such a god must be below the meanest hell.
–Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)

Eternal suffering does not serve a loving God, it is not logical, it is not just, and it is wholly incompatible with his character. However, fear of hell does motivate people to join and spread Christianity, and I don’t think this is a mere coincidence.

Why would God even want to fill heaven with a bunch of “yes men,” who blindly go along with God’s definition of “good”? Wasn’t the point of creating man to avoid having a bunch of robots? Does God only want us to use our free will to choose to serve him, but never to question what is good? What if this is a test, and God is really looking for those who will think for themselves; those who will refuse to compromise their sense of morality even in the face of eternal torment? If God desires the company of those who are truly good, then he will want those who stand up to all kinds of evil, even when that evil is perpetrated by God himself. But then again, maybe God really does just want a bunch of sheep.

 I have always considered “Pascal’s Wager” a questionable bet to place, since any God worth believing in would prefer an honest agnostic to a calculating hypocrite.
–Alan M. Dershowitz, Letters to a Young Lawyer

(Note: I realize not all Christians share the same vision of hell, and this is something I will take on under a later question. But with respect to Pascal’s Wager, if we assume that hell is not all bad or is only temporary, then it makes it far less risky to wager against God.)

I can’t stress enough how insanely suspicious it is that God should place any importance on our ability to believe without evidence. If God were real, and truly a god of love, he would place value on things like love, compassion, mercy, virtue, forgiveness, etc., and would judge us on these things. It does not make sense that God would place any value on some measure of gullibility, however, it does make sense that if God does not exist, that those who invented him would place a value upon belief without evidence, precisely because there was none.

“Religion is poison because it asks us to give up our most precious faculty, which is that of reason, and to believe things without evidence.  It then asks us to respect this, which it calls faith.”
–Christopher Hitchens, God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything

I strongly suspect that ideas like “hell” and “faith without evidence” exist not because they are reasonable, or true, but because they work to motivate us. Add this to the fact that Christianity’s claims and consequences can never be proven nor falsified, and the whole claim smells fishy.


Christianity has always presented itself as the only viable option (“turn or burn”), and Pascal’s Wager just spells this out. Is Pascal’s Wager a compelling argument? Absolutely, it is probably the most compelling argument one could forge out of absolutely nothing.

But Pascal’s Wager asks us to betray our mind to cover our ass. It does a disservice to truth by asking us to elevate our beliefs beyond what the evidence supports. It adds no new evidence for the existence of God; it employs the same reasoning as superstition; its logic can be used to defend any god or religion, and even if true, we would have to betray our own sense of morality in order to fully embrace it.

The only thing we know with any certainty is that we have this life, shall we wager it away on the chance at another? In accepting Pascal’s Wager, we wager our minds, our money, our time, our reason, our morality, our children, and possibly even the very survival of our species.

If we were to all accept Pascal’s Wager, and give ourselves over to God and the Bible without question, and we are all wrong, what then? Then we have allowed our species to become enslaved by superstitious thinking and empty threats, and gambled away the only life we will ever have, and with it humanity’s only chance at understanding the truth about who we are and where we came from.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
–Unknown (aka “The Atheist’s Wager”)

This entry was posted in God's Behavior, Heaven and Hell, Logic and Reason and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

82 Responses to 57. What about Pascal’s Wager? Why risk going to hell?

  1. Meghan says:

    1 Corinthians 1:25New International Version (NIV)

    25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

    You try to understand Gods ways and challenge his creation….He is way bigger than us and we will NEVER comprehend his ways! You challenge him and he created you…..he is giving you a platform and followers to speak your mind (AKA free will) and I can’t wait for the day he uses you for his glory! You may think you are wise but that’s nothing compared to the MIGHTY things he can do! Blessings and I will be watching😉

    • Hi Meghan,

      The claim here is that an invisible entity exists who is smarter and stronger than I am. Can you prove this extraordinary claim?

      I would say I am smarter and stronger than God, and I’m willing to prove it. Write down a math problem on a piece of paper, and place next to it a 10lb weight. Invite me and God to solve the equation an lift the weight. If I can do these things but God cannot, than we can both agree that I am smarter and stronger. If you’re forced to resort to excuses for why God did not show up, then you are just making up excuses to prevent the falsification of your claim, and these same excuses could be used by any other imagined god.

      It’s fine for the Bible to claim that God is smarter and stronger than humans, but it must prove it with evidence. As I cover under question #14, this evidence is strangely lacking, as God appears oddly ignorant of his own creation. Prophecies are another claim to God’s superior knowledge, and I’ve been carefully working through many of these to see if there is anything spectacular here. So far I haven’t found anything impressive, but I will continue to keep looking.

      Frustrated in Christ,

      • Meghan says:

        Since you claim to be stronger and smarter than God….

        Can you explain how the Bible can give me answers to my life?

        If some fools wrote the Bible how can it speak to me in such a way that guides me through life….they all have to be a brilliant manipulator!!

        I wasn’t always a Christian and didn’t believe in the Bible….I actually prayed and was seeking God before I ever opened a Bible. When I actually read the Bible I was blown away how what I learned from the Holy Spirit matched perfectly to the Bible and I was sold….I gave my life to Jesus. I have seen evidence🙂

        I think in order to get revelation you have to go humbly before God instead of battle him. I really hope you get the answer you want.

        • Jim says:

          “Can you explain how the Bible can give me answers to my life?” Can you explain how those who read the Qur’an feel the exact same way and are willing to die for those beliefs?

          “If some fools wrote the Bible how can it speak to me in such a way that guides me through life…they all have to be a brilliant manipulator!!” They don’t have to be great manipulators or even genius to convince us of Biblical truth, especially when it is a document that evolved and was heavily redacted over a long period of time. We see and hear what we want to see and hear, and when we read the bible with the idea that this can and will give me something, then it will. Have you ever watched a movie or read a book that really changed the way you looked at something? I have and I know that It doesn’t take a holy book to make that happen. The Bible is full of many good things, but that doesn’t make it the sole authority of truth and wisdom.

          You said, “When I actually read the Bible I was blown away how what I learned from the Holy Spirit matched perfectly to the Bible.” Catholics would say the same thing, but something tells me you wouldn’t agree with what they see as biblical truth.

          I think those who wrote the Bible were no fools, in fact I think they were far ahead of their time and the many people, in many generations that put it together did an amazing job. I’m not an Atheist, but naive views and non-critical biblical interpretation is exactly why I left Christianity.

          One final thing, you know the very idea that you shouldn’t be fighting God to prove himself, is against the very nature of what many faithful people in the Bible did. I don’t see why wanting proof is a bad thing. If one goes humbly which I would interpret your use of the word as, subserviently or insignificantly, then you’ve already convinced yourself that no proof in necessary.

          • Meghan says:

            I’ve seen proof but it’s through my experience and that’s not the proof your looking for….if I give you my personal testimony you can dissect it or call me a liar because it’s my testemony. Until you experience God through your own experience you will keep believing in what you want. I just recommend coming to him in a humble ways….sometimes God puts us in difficult situation so we can be humbled. At the end of the day I’m not God nor do I want to be I will just continue to work for him and see more proofs as I go. I’m not fighting you because we will just go round and round and get nowhere….I am curious to see where God takes you🙂

            • Jim says:

              I wouldn’t discredit your testimony it’s your view on what happened to you. Who am I to say anything about your experiences. I did come off a bit harsh, but just so you know I still go to church with my family, and I enjoy being around many Christians and I get it. I was raised a Christian and as I got older I went from Baptist, to Pentecostal, and several other things “Feeling God” the whole way. It wasn’t until the last 2 years or so when I started to look at the Bible more critically, and found there are some issues with the beliefs I had. Now I don’t believe in the hype put behind the bible, and I don’t follow feelings when it comes to God. That doesn’t mean I don’t think there is a God, nor does it mean I wish to tear down others faith with critical readings and a demand for historical accuracy. I just hope that you will also respect that those who are in a place of disbelief are generally not here because of ignorance, not wanting to listen, or just hating God. I wish you the best!

        • johnkutensky says:

          Meghan, can you explain how The Adventures of Baron Munchausen speaks to me in such a way that guides me through life? Is he real, too? Do you suppose that every work of fiction that speaks to at least one individual must therefore be true? How does the Koran speak to so many? How does the Torah? The Tao Te Ching? If a book speaking to individuals is a proof of veracity, how do you explain all the other books in which you don’t believe?

          • Meghan says:

            I think books can add influence to life and apply to situations….there is truth in many things!! For me the Holy Spirit and the Bible has been powerful!! I can’t say the same for the other books I’ve read…..now something’s I’ve read have made an impression or influenced me in awesome ways🙂 keep seeking I’m sure you’ll find answers or they will find you!!

            • DanD says:

              But I can. Golden age science fiction has done far more to develop the person I am than the bible has.

              Why, then, is the bible more accurate, or relevant, or whatever you are claiming than these other books?

        • toby says:

          What you say about the Bible in defence of it…Muslims say the same types of things about the Quran. For Muslims the Quran is a miracle. It contains the wisdom of God spoken through the Prophet. Can you explain how the Quran can give Muslims answers in their life? People of many different religions have sacred texts that provide important answers in their lives. Your logic would suggest that all sacred texts are all true… wouldn’t it? Don’t we require real evidence and not emotion coloured by our desires, biases and upbringing?

      • Daniela says:

        “I would say I am smarter and stronger than God, and I’m” willing to prove it. Write down a math problem on a piece of paper, and place next to it a 10lb weight. Invite me and God to solve the equation an lift the weight. If I can do these things but God cannot, than we can both agree that I am smarter and stronger. If you’re forced to resort to excuses for why God did not show up, then you are just making up excuses to prevent the falsification of your claim, and these same excuses could be used by any other imagined god.”
        It sounds pathetic, like kid’s talk. Even if you invite the president, he wouldn’t show up just to prove a point. Are you going to claim his no-show as his non-existence? Common, you already saw the video in your question 19. Jeff wheatcraft was hanged in an instant.

        • If the claim were “the President exists,” I think there is already sufficient evidence to meet the burden of proof. This is not an extraordinary claim, and I have no reason to doubt it.

          God’s intelligence, power, and existence, however, are still in question, and the burden of proof is upon anyone claiming these things to be real.

          Since God is everywhere and willing do anything that two or more of his believers ask, meeting the burden of proof should not be a problem for you:

          “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” Matt 18:19-20

          I’m open to other forms of proof if you’re willing to present them. Perhaps you could get together with another Christian friend and call a little fire down from heaven? We can have a BBQ and make a day of it. Or will you just offer even more excuses for why your God makes promises that he cannot deliver on?

          Peace and truth,

          • Daniela says:

            Not his existence but maybe his (president) intelligence and strength. I can demand to compare my intelligence and strength against his intelligence and strength. And if he doesn’t show up I can declare him an idiot and has no strength. You should see that this type of demand is pathetic and he wouldn’t even waste a second to think about it.
            You can’t take Matt 18:19-20 literally. Its implications are more sophisticated than what it says.

            “I’m open to other forms of proof if you’re willing to present them.”

            If you expect to see God move a mountain from one place to another then you need to see a doctor. It will never happen no matter what. Why? Because proof goes against the purpose of your existence. God doesn’t want your mind (for you to have knowledge of Him). He wants your heart (belief/trust). Beside your personal experience if God let you, facts and some evidence is all you’re going to get:
            I believe I gave you Howard Storm’s testimony and this website: http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html
            These people talked about the light at the end of the tunnel when you die. That’s how you get to heaven. Remember, God does not send people to hell. People drift to hell by themselves, so you can’t blame God.

            These facts and evidence should be enough to consider the existence of spiritual reality and God.

            Consider Pascal’s wager too. It’s better to have some form of coverage than have no coverage. We don’t live forever in this physical body.

            • cromagnostic says:

              Good Morning!

              1) “If you expect to see God move a mountain from one place to another then you need to see a doctor. It will never happen no matter what. Why? Because proof goes against the purpose of your existence. God doesn’t want your mind (for you to have knowledge of Him). He wants your heart (belief/trust)”

              Respectfully, is your position not backed from testimony of people (witnesses) who (supposedly) indeed had proof?

              Kindly, where was this “God doesn’t want your mind- just your heart” talk when he was turning water into wine and walking on water? These witnesses who required 0 faith still got into Heaven did they not?

              2)” Consider Pascal’s wager too. It’s better to have some form of coverage than have no coverage.”

              Quoting my post: “As it is now, a “Christian” would need to be Presbyterian & Episcopalian on Mondays, Protestant and Jehovahs Witness on Tuesdays, a Catholic naturally on Hump Day, Anglican & Methodist on Thursday, Holy-Roller & Shaker Fridays (party on!), Baptist & Calvanist Saturdays & finally Jewish Sundays + every other holiday so the kids can have their eight crazy nights without having to disbelieve in Santa Claus altogether….THIS ALL to only “begin” to hedge their bets to make this argument work.

              Monotheism, however, inherently rejects this “hedging” before it even begins…”

              That said, Pascal’s wager really only is a valid argument ( game theory wise) if you can believe in more than one or if there was the “absolute” of only having one God to choose from.

    • Andy Rhodes says:

      We don’t have the ability to know everything or judge God with a capitol “J”. But, we can evaluate the data from nature, scripture and our personal experience and then decide how things appear to us. Shouldn’t an all-good God appear to behave at a higher ethical level than us? Responding to this question, as many Christians do, by saying God’s ways are beyond our understanding is likely to be a cop out, at least to some significant degree. How can God expect us to use our conscience as an initial guide for moral choices, but then present us with so many atrocities in nature and the Bible?

      Among the most outlandish claims of the Bible, one of the most unbelievable must be the event of two human beings making one significant rebellious choice and then this caused all of nature to fall into disarray, to where all humans would be bound for Hell from birth. What kind of divine planning, fairness, compassion, proportionality and wisdom is this? I don’t mean to be insulting, but this doesn’t sound even remotely true. It sounds like a mythological story and only that. Outside of a pre-commitment to the alleged trustworthiness and omnibenevolence of this God and/or the psychological need humans have for certainty and security that drives many to believe it, no other category of human life is given such an easy test for credibility. Why not believe in UFOs and alien abductions? We actually can talk with thousands of people today who say it happened to them or in front of their eyes. The Bible, for all of the good and noble things that I can point to in various places is also full of absurdities, grandiose ethical flaws and contradictions to such a degree as to require a tremendous amount of gullibility. This credulousness is pressured into existence by life’s intrinsically devastating sufferings and ambiguity.

  2. drakodoc says:

    Another brilliant post! Well done.

  3. Kevin says:

    Why did you decide to just disprove Christianity? Is this religion the most likely one to be true? You are conducting 500 reasons why Christianity is false. I’m going to save you a lot of trouble by saying it only takes one fallacy to disprove a higher power. You are now just wasting precious time. When you get to 500 then what?

    • Hi Kevin,

      “Why did you decide to just disprove Christianity?”

      Probably because it was the religion that I believed. Had I been raised Muslim, I would question Islam. But Christianity is also (currently) the world’s largest religion, so it seems like the most logical one to question.

      “When you get to 500 then what?”

      Maybe then I’ll question Islam.😉

      “…it only takes one fallacy to disprove a higher power. You are now just wasting precious time.”

      I think, when you are a Christian, you believe for a myriad of reasons; every prophecy, every feeling, every NDE story, every perceived miracle, every piece of evidence that supports your preconceived notions — they all contribute to the whole. If I was wrong about what I believed, I want to look back at how all these ideas could be wrong, and if there is any truth to some of these claims, then maybe there’s still some hope.

      Honestly, as a former Christian, I find researching these questions both interesting and reassuring, at least for now.

      Take care, 500Q

  4. Anonymous says:

    Brilliant – You’re smarter than the average bear. Thank You for your posts.

  5. cromagnostic says:

    Way to go 500 Questions!

    J’adore les philosophes français!

    I recall enjoying this argument quite a bit when I had to study Pascal.

    1) The “game theory” here is certainly a more than fair proposal from a risk: reward perspective- but would really require there to be only ONE GOD to believe in WITHOUT OTHER CHOICES.

    As it is now, a “Christian” would need to be Presbyterian & Episcopalian on Mondays, Protestant and Jehovahs Witness on Tuesdays, a Catholic naturally on Hump Day, Anglican & Methodist on Thursday, Holy-Roller & Shaker Fridays (party on!), Baptist & Calvanist Saturdays & finally Jewish Sundays + every other holiday so the kids can have their eight crazy nights without having to disbelieve in Santa Claus altogether….THIS ALL to only “begin” to hedge their bets to make this argument work.

    Monotheism, however, inherently rejects this “hedging” before it even begins…

    2) “But Christianity offers a good excuse for not having to provide evidence: God has intentionally obscured all evidence in order to preserve free will!”

    Meanwhile you’re held to the double standard of rummaging through the obscured evidence to find proof of his existence…?

    Romans 1:20
    “For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”

    3) I feel the hubris of human ego can be proportionately measured by the assumption that, if there is a God, it would give a damn about you in the first place.

  6. peterkariukisk says:

    You said, “Muslims too believe they have good evidence, and after 1,500 years of trying, Christians have failed to disprove this evidence to the satisfaction of over a billion Muslims”

    You know, its not easy or simple to set aside an idea even when its proved false. That is as true to religion, ad it is for atheism. To prove someone wrong, or his position false, is mostly taken as an affront. So, in as much as you may have a point about religions failing to prove themselves, what has science arrived at about our reality? Copenhagen Interpretation, Bells Theorem, and EPR paradox, all confirm that reality is nonlocal. meaning its spiritual. Science has =failed to pin down, what reality is made of. Its supper positioned.

    What does Christianity told us? That we are One Spirit, under God. What has science proved about reality? That at Quantum Realm, reality is entangled. Meaning, we are all connected. David Bolm, was of the opinion hat the Universe is a Hologram, a Wholeness of an Implicate Order, unfolding out of hidden Oder He suggested that there is a reality of a more complex dimension, that we are not yet privy too, and only gets inferences from its potions. This is the reality which he explains as “Wholeness” Bohn suggests that there is an implicate order, enfolded in the reality we perceive, and out of which this order we perceive as physical reality unfolds, as an explicit it order of appearances, and then enfolds back into the Implicate Order. To David Bohm, everything is interconnected in One unified unbroken whole. He says, “If man thinks of the totality as constituted of independent fragments, then that is how his mind will tend to operate, but if he can include everything coherently and harmoniously in an overall whole that is undivided, unbroken, and without a border then his mind will tend to move in a similar way, and from this will flow an orderly action within the whole. (David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, 1980) This idea of unbroken whole, has also been accepted by other leading scientists. A French physicist Bernard D’Espagnat agreed with Bohm when he said that “the entire notion of an external, fixed, objective world now lies in conflict not only with quantum theory, but in facts drawn from actual experiments…. in some sense all these objects constitute an indivisible whole.”

    So, Here are scientists confirming all that Christians have been claiming. That we are all One. Think of Dreams, what are they? Why does the notion of dreams being illusions, so logical, and yet the probability of the waking reality being an illusion also, becomes nonsensical? Why, if Quantum Theory has confirms that we are all entangles, does this confirm that the appearance of separateness is merely an illusion?

    In regard to Islam, Quaran has given a caveat, “ Do they not then, meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it, many a discrepancy.” Surah 4: 82. So, all Moslem need to do, is Identify discrepancies in the Quran, in order to confirm that it was not from God, but it’s a man made thing. But do they?

    As long as an Idea is profitable, man will never abandon it. That includes Atheism, So, as long as you are gaining something from your Atheistic idea, you will never accept the Truth even if He slaps you on the face!

    • DanD says:

      A statement that quantum mechanics is spiritual in nature, or vice versa, shows a poor understanding of both quantum mechanics and spirituality.

      Oh, and “thou art god” is from “Stranger in a Strange Land”, not Christianity. Christianity, in general, believes in the individuality of the soul even after death, not an inherent commonality of “all are one”.

    • toby says:

      “So, as long as you are gaining something from your Atheistic idea, you will never accept the Truth”
      And what is there to be gained by atheism? I was a Christian for 35 years and am now an atheist. I gained nothing accept peace of mind in my own intellectual honesty. I could no longer live the lie.

      • Daniela says:

        “Intellectual” involves intelligence which is knowledge. Do you have enough knowledge to conclude that the “God” concept is a lie?

        • Alpha says:

          Maybe not, but I have enough evidence to conclude that if the Christian god concept is NOT a lie, he is not the moral leader I would want to worship or follow,

          Been away a while. Congrats 500Q. One of your best posts yet, I think. This really resonated.

          • consultgtf says:

            “God” concept is a lie!
            Because, I can live without anybody’s help. My heart is pumping and will keep pumping till I die, while house water pump has stopped working even before its warranty period.
            My five senses works like mad now-a-days, my nose can smell, my ear can hear the sound, my tongue and tell the taste, I can feel, I can think, I can remember, the planets will revolve around the sun as the will get their salary only then, the planets will rotate and revolve, as it the punishment, coming back to own body, the blood will absorb oxygen from lungs,food from intestines and supply oxygen and food to every part of the body …
            So, I can live on my own, why should thee God ask me to live a moral life, anyway?

            I am on this earth to enjoy before I enter the next world hopefully, it can be Hell or Heaven, depends on my present living style, anyway I will not get this life again, so let me enjoy to the fullest, He will never let me satisfy my senses, I am born to satisfy my senses not control it, now do you now know why the “God” concept is a lie!

  7. Sal says:

    Hmmmm.. to believe in God and die and there be nothing or to believe there is no God and die and finding out there is a real God ???. It’s obvious to me. So what ! if I believe in an illusion. It’s no big deal. So what ! if I have committed myself to an allusion instead of committing my life to reality. Why squabble about how a non-believer can live a good moral and loving life without having to resort to an illusion, because as a believer I can also live a good life who believes in an illusion. I can also dispute that a Non-believer believes in an illusion. My point is that my belief will not change who I am whether I believe or not. I am not changing my life in any way, shape or form, whether I believe in God or Not. My life will still remain the same. I will still go to work everyday and try to live a good life being a son, father and husband. I will not shove God down anybody’s throat. I do not pray and I do not attend church and I do not give my life to God. But, I do believe I live a good moral life who believes in a God, even if it so happens He is an illusion. It is just a belief and nothing more.

    Just because we do not know if God exist does not mean we should not believe in him. Okay, so you say he doesn’t exist and that believing in him is just an illusion or imaginary. Suppose you are right and that he is just a myth and there is no such thing as a god. I can argue just the opposite. We can argue till the end of time. But imagine though, the day you die and face Jesus and he asks why you rebelled against him and all you are able to say is that you didn’t make it clear to me that you existed… to which He might reply “Why did you think I did not exist? “, “Who told you?”, “You stayed away from me because you didn’t want to know me. Then off to hell you go.

    Nobody, not one, is certain about Jesus. And nobody is certain about the afterlife, and certainly nobody is certain about God. I think that if you must believe in something it is better to believe in a God rather than believing in no God even if we don’t know for certain either way. Both ways are just a belief. I agree, there may be no God that exists, but if my heart is telling me otherwise, then I have to go with what my gut is telling me. And if he turns out to be an illusion, then so be it. The life I lived would have not changed.

    If this God is evil who sends everybody to hell for believing in him, then that means the non-believers are saved. However I believe that if I believe in Jesus I do not believe in a Satan god, because Jesus was a good loving man who lived a life helping others and never for himself. Jesus is a good man to believe in. I am not talking about religion or Christianity because I believe religion is an illusion, however if one can put his faith in only one man, and not in some religion, creed or doctrine, then that kind of belief is not so much of a delusion because somehow I do know for certain, that a man name Jesus did walk on this earth. Encyclopedias and theological scholars concluded He is indeed an historical figure. I just have a simple belief in Jesus and nothing more. I am no better than you and you are no better than me. We are both trying to live a good moral life no matter what we believe in.

    In the real world its fine to go against the current… but when facing an uncertain afterlife, well, there’s just too much at stake. I just don’t think I’d risk it. Even if God is not real then at least I’m living my life in a great way: honestly, trustworthily, caringly, etc. Choosing to NOT believe a God exists seems dangerous, foolish and illogical. If I am wrong about my faith, I will not be any worse off living my life the way I do.

    • Daniela says:

      “And nobody is certain about the afterlife, and certainly nobody is certain about God.”
      Not so. There are people who are certain about God and surely the afterlife.

    • Sal, I’m going to tell you the truth: I AM.

      That’s right, I am the creator of all things. I’m not asking you to do anything, I just want you to acknowledge that I alone created you, because if you don’t, I will be forced to punish you for all eternity. What have you got to lose?

      • Daniela says:

        This is called “INSANITY.”

        • But you can’t prove I’m wrong.😉

          • Daniela says:

            Yes I can. If you are the creator (God) you wouldn’t be looking for the creator in all these questions of yours. You are the creator yet you still questioning whether you existed? LMAOL.😉

            • cromagnostic says:

              LOL Daniela that would have been a perfect opportunity to reply:

              “Sure I can- I’ve got a math problem and a 10 lb. weight with your name on it.”

              All cynical joking aside, consider what 500 Questions claims but take him back hundreds of years, give him a healthy dose of political power, a robe fresh from Hogwarts and a nice pointy 10 gallon hat and look at how many would have believed him within a different context… ( a.k.a. I’ve got kindling, a stake to tie you to, a shiny new Zippo lighter and the power to get away with it kind of context)

              Even if you (respectfully) disagree with our doubting of Christianity, I bet you agree with our doubting of the countless other religions out there.

              There is more that we agree on than disagree on and what we do agree on we can’t deny that these religions have a very sociologically and politically engrained formula.

              Part of that formula Daniela is for the person in power – to 500’s point- is to claim something then back it up with ” You can’t prove me wrong” like 500 Questions just illustrated.

              (I say “Zippo” for effect here…naturally)

              • Daniela says:

                LOL Yeah, any reasonable expectation or logical frame work will work for 500questions to prove himself.

                In regards to 500questions’ claim though, even if it was back hundred of years, believers would still be very few if any. Consider Jesus, with His high and consistent moral standard and the power to walk on water, turn water into wine, fed five thousands with two fishes, He still had few followers. 500questions wouldn’t want to risk getting stoned or hanged for that matter.

                The formula you talked about is in the nature of a social or religious group. In religion, it does not build upon “you can’t prove me wrong” but rather through the deep understanding and/or feeling of this world and beyond.

                • As an interesting side note, José Luis de Jesús died last year, but not before managing to convince about 2 million people he was the returned Christ. Just because someone believes they are the messiah, and can convince others, doesn’t make it true.

                  And there have been many other self-proclaimed messiahs and prophets who made claims they were willing to then die for (e.g. Heaven’s Gate cult, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Joseph Smith, etc.). A willingness to die for one’s claim doesn’t prove it’s true. Lord knows Jesus wasn’t the only one to take a stab at the title of Messiah. I tend to think that Jesus really did believe he had a shot at the earthly title (as the Jews understood it), and only later did it become about something else.

                  Peace out,

                  • Daniela says:

                    I understand. I heard one myself but every body just ridicule him. As for José Luis de Jesús, if he did claimed to be the return of Jesus, all you have to do is ask him turn water into wine and we should all know. I bet you he couldn’t. Countless thing you can do to verify his claim. What is your bet?

                • toby says:

                  How do you know Jesus had the power to walk on water, turn water into wine or feed five thousand with a few fishes, apart from the unsubstantiated claims recorded in the Bible? There are many other figures who have allegedly performed similar miraculous deeds… why don’t you believe in them?

                  • Daniela says:

                    Names some of those other miraculous deeds please. The Bible is a peer-reviewed documentation from historical accounts.

    • Maroo says:

      @Sal . . . you write, “I can also dispute that a Non-believer believes in an illusion.” Actually, no, you can’t. By definition, a “non-believer” does not believe, therefore the “non-believer” *cannot* believe in an illusion.

      If living in a delusional state makes it easier for you to live what you think is a moral life, that’s fine, as far as it goes. But you would also be missing out on the beauty of a world and a universe that operates as it does simply because it operates as it does, without any intervention by some higher power. And that is a most beautiful thing indeed.

    • grace says:

      @ Sal

      What if we believe the wrong God? what if Muslim is the true religion? Then all christians will be going to hell!
      imagine when u r dead, and God ask u, why did u worship Jesus? I am a jealous God, and I’m the only God u should worship!

      i find it scary that God can burn us forever because we choose the wrong God.

      • Daniela says:

        The Christian God, the Islam (Muslim) God and Judah God are the same God. The difference is the teaching or philosophy of the prophet. However, the Christian philosophy from Jesus is modern not like Islam where one can get stoned to death.

        • cromagnostic says:

          At least you’re hedging your bets…

          • Daniela says:

            I don’t know if you want to call it “hedging.” The God of Abraham is the God of all three major religions and its history is well documented.

            What about you?

            • cromagnostic says:

              1) “The God of Abraham is the God of all three major religions and its history is well documented.”

              Islam and Christianity sure- but Hinduism?


              2) “What about you?”

              A) If there hypothetically is a Christian God my first word’s on Judgment Day would be ” So God, did you allow the Devil to taint the Bible knowing in advance his pride would likely lead him to do so? IF you did, slick move because you absolved humans of their sins as they couldn’t possibly be judged by a tainted Bible while simultaneously you maintained your sin free existence in defeating the Devil at his ultimate purpose by hanging him with his own noose (pride). That explains A LOT.

              B) Additionally, if there hypothetically is a God, I have a hard time reconciling why so many religions (present & past) all congruently teach that “God cares about you.” Even if we disagree on Christianity, we can agree there is a trend here with other religions that appeals to the human nature of “ego + uncertainty avoidance.” Why should a God give a damn and is this not reflective of our own pride?

              C) As far as “hedging” goes- well no I guess it wouldn’t be if you’re truly making a blend by happenstance and not because you want to increase your “eternal odds.”

              Interestingly, I can’t argue that if indeed there is a God, all the human race’s “experiential knowledge” over several thousands of years would manifest – much like we have different cultures- into different religions yet technically there wouldn’t have ever been a “correct one”. It would just be “apples to oranges” and people picking up on the same frequency and simply interpreting it differently- again like our different cultures.

        • DanD says:

          I’d suggest you double check the stoning to death, or you know, burning at the stake. It was quite popular in Christianity for a while. And I would suggest that neither Jews nor Muslims will acknowledge that Jesus is God, which rather puts a damper on your “all the same god” belief.

          If you’re going to make that claim, however, what about Shiva, Odin, Zeus, and Ra? Ahura Mazda, Waheguru, and Olorun? Amenominakanushi, Quetzalcoatl, Danu and Varima-te-takere?

          • Daniela says:

            Christianity deals with Jesus and His philosophy/teaching so no stoning and slavery. Jesus is not God, He is the son of God. However, all these three religions worship the same God, the God of Abraham.

            Most other Gods you listed are either false, fake or the same God by different names, attributes, characters and in different languages. Any one god who had a mother and/or father is a false god. Any god who plays no part in the creation or the flood, is a false god.
            Is that clear?

            • leighton taylor says:

              “Any one god who had a mother and/or father is a false god.”
              Jesus – Mother (mary), Father (Joseph/Jehovah)
              Conclusion – false god (by your own interpretation)

              • Daniela says:

                Jesus is not God, He is the son of God.

                • drakodoc says:

                  Daniela, you really have no idea of your own religion.

                  First Council of Nicea (325 CE):

                  “But those who say: ‘There was a time when he was not;’ and ‘He was not before he was made;’ and ‘He was made out of nothing,’ or ‘He is of another substance’ or ‘essence,’ or ‘The Son of God is created,’ or ‘changeable,’ or ‘alterable’—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church” (Citation Wikipedia, Nicene Creed, 10 Oct 14)

                  Let me translate for you: anyone who claims that the Son of God is not God (‘of another substance’ or ‘essense’) is condemned by the Christian Church. Congratulations!

                  • Daniela says:

                    Read John 3:16 It is clear right there.

                    • DanD says:

                      Again, you’re missing the fact that the teaching of all extant Christian churches is trinitarian in nature, meaning that they believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the holy Spirit. 3 in 1.

                      And back to my original list of names, care to explain exactly how you can prove that the God you believe in is different from the gods I listed. (And a hint, even if we take your criteria Anu meets all of them; no father or mother, played a role in creation and the flood; yet as part of a pantheon is clearly distinct from Jehovah.)

            • drakodoc says:

              “Most other Gods you listed are either false, fake or the same God by different names, attributes, characters and in different languages.”

              Really? Please provide proof of your irrational claim because from my perspective, your Yahweh is just as false and fake as all those other gods. Just because you want your myth to be true does not make it so.

              • Daniela says:

                If my was irrational why do you need proof? It doesn’t make sense.

              • consultgtf says:

                Can you please explain me your perspective, as your claim looks so silly,

                Just because, We have the software’s, and film making is happening in the computer rather than on the scene location! It is either touched up with flash or IE so, can we conclude that the old film making is fake?
                Or just because my Father not is well versed to use smart phone, can I call him fake?
                He I thought me about phone, initially, will it will mean that my Father is fake?

                We discussing in length about children and we suffering, basically trying to cut the leaves, when we are aware that we need to cut the root-cause for eliminating the problem, The Ten commandments which was given by my GTF given during Moses time is still valid, and We are suffering only because we are breaking them,who understands this basic reason? Read them again if you have any doubt,
                Exodus 20: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
                3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

                4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
                This is not fake, as we are seeing the sufferings every where. Can we change?

          • Daniela says:

            So, it is not that an argument is valid true in its form but rather it is the hatred against a God, is that it? You people are not interested to find out the truth. You’re just here to despise the truth. There is no further need to look for the truth. You people are here only to reject God.

            • cromagnostic says:

              “You people are here only to reject God.”

              If someone posits information that provides sound evidence for ANY God while backing it up as to why their God is the REAL GOD in relation to the hundred’s of possibilities- I’m more than willing to listen, perform due diligence and perhaps even accept it.

              Simply put, no one has done that yet.

              • consultgtf says:

                If you can in existence of God after I give you the evidence, then your second doubt can be answered very easily!
                Proof# 1. You and I are alive,
                it is not a joke ask a doctors who seen patients dying? while they were operating, or our mothers who were carrying us while we were still happily growing and eating the food she was eating, that too digested form through umbilical cord? Though every cell in our is replaced, we call our self OLD!

                Proof# 2. Universe and its inhabitants.
                Starting from Amoeba to Dinosaur, from a Atom to Galaxy was created by our, sorry my GTF (God Thee Father) how many of us can/will appreciate his planning, design, and execution of everything that we are copying for centuries, till today and boasting it as Invention, actually it is discovery in different form. The planets have been revolving and also rotating on its given axis, there is no causality till date, humans created on the same time-line have very few accidents, till now in which few trillions/ would have died?
                They decided to follow their Creators words/commandments, forget their life is so monotonous compared to humans! Watch TV to know the accidents and the causalities, life is trilling bro!

                3. To reach the planet next to you, we have taken more than 2000 years, and you want proof!

                4. You just left a long breadth now, do you know without you knowledge miracles have been happening? you took in Air, absorbed oxygen and left out carbon-di-oxide! while your heart was pumping blood for kilometers range and in parallel while your let in an image, which was taken to your brain by nerve cells, and brain first saw then understood what it saw and preparing what to reply, while your digestive system was converting flood into energy, so on and on…AND that is how/why you are alive.
                All these were created by my Father, God Thee Father (GTF),
                now hope these are enough to answer your question! These are some of the proofs, I gave, so your next question, who is real God will be different topic all together
                If you have any doubts on these basics, we need to go back to your teacher in the school to teach us all please, I have also forgotten few functions lately!

                …and we humans are still can’t answer, which came first egg or chicken?!

                • Daniela says:

                  “which came first egg or chicken?!”
                  We already scientifically know which one came first.

                  • consultgtf says:

                    What about your thoughts for rest?

                  • consultgtf says:

                    Sorry, I could not attend that class, Can you explain please?

                    As From the beginning, belief/faith in God, has also been science for some people, but we all need to all be “on the same page” when it comes to a few terms. We can define belief/faith as a “methodical approach to the acquiring Spiritual knowledge.” This important word distinguishes how a Religious person lives/works from other people who are worldly. Acquiring Spiritual knowledge is Science it is methodical, to approach this knowledge as it is not acquired through proofs. but Knowledge about science can be gained through a variety of ways, but acquiring Spiritual knowledge is methodical and needs and lot of perseverance, to appreciate our Creator!

                    God just cannot be tested scientifically. Even, Scientists are also very religious. And the method of acquiring Spiritual knowledge is a long pathway which involves several steps, first being
                    1. Living is a life where we are the matster of our own actions and reactions; it is like at ankle depth in the God’s Spirit.
                    2. Living is a life where we are master of our own actions and reactions but still believing God every now and then, is like knee depth in God’s Spirit.
                    3. Living a life waist deep faithful, but we would still live in a comfort zone. Therefore, “evil communications could corrupt good manners”.
                    4. Living a life, with Shoulder Deep Belief have almost mastered submitting to the will of God
                    5. Living a life, Submerged in God’s will. This is final step, where, He guides your steps you fully we just surrender, not requiring human knowledge to take decisions, very similar situation where we sign the loan papers, They can acquire our property if we are try to be smart!
                    Any human Father, will never give snake when the child asks for Fish or Stone when the child asks for bread, if we know so much, what to give to our children! Then, will our Creator not know which is best for us, as our human knowledge is limited in knowing the present that too not fully.

                    God is apart from this science, as, He is not constrained by either time or space!

      • sal says:

        Because Jesus is the only man in history and who ever lived to make the claim he is God, and somehow he got away with it and convinced most of the world…No other man in history made this claim. When people ask me if God exist, my answer is if Jesus is who He claim to be then the true God exist. And Jesus was no evil man.

        • Mohammad also managed to convince over a billion people that he was God’s prophet. In fact, at the rate things are going, Islam may soon trump Catholicism as the single largest world religion. But truth is not determined by popular vote.

          • Sal says:

            But Mohammad never claim to be God. Hundreds have been God’s Prophets, but never did a prophet claim to be God. Jesus was the only man in all of history to claim to be God. He is the biggest difference from all other religions.. I agree truth is not determine by number of believers. All I know is that if I believe in Jesus, then I am believing in God. If I believe in Mohammad I am believing in just a mere man .

            • cromagnostic says:

              Happy Turkey Day!
              To reiterate:
              “Hundreds have been God’s Prophets, but never did a prophet claim to be God. Jesus was the only man in all of history to claim to be God.”

              Not disagreeing with you, I just want to clarify your stance. Within the context of Pascal’s Wager, there have been many “prophets” and many “people claiming to be God,” but the specificity of a “prophet claiming to be God” wholly represents what is mutually exclusive thus representing the backbone of your view?

        • consultgtf says:

          Kindly read the bible again, If Jesus claimed, and if at it is true…then whom was He praying to? Himself? No Trinity concept, please.
          and worst part is, He died like all Humans do, but he controlled his senses, that was only difference between him and normal humans who fail for their senses!
          Nobody witnessed His resurrection, how can this happen to God?
          1. If Jesus was God, no human could have touched Him.
          2. Why should he die? when he came save?
          3. Was he sacrificed? By whom, then to whom? To Himself, God? for what?
          4. All his miracles were based on the faith of the person who required change, and to glorify thee Father
          5. If claiming to be God is the only criteria, the can we say God punished him by putting on Cross for blasphemy?

          Again, the naked truth which cannot be accepted as, we need satisfy our senses and expect God to always forgive never punish us, but we will can punish others if they make even a silly mistake.
          There is only one God. GOD THEE FATHER! Believe and live a better life!

          • Sal says:

            The bible has over 40 references of how Jesus and the father are one. I can’t list them here because of limited space. Please research your questions Only those who are educated will know the real truth.

      • Sal says:

        I believe in a simple man who is the only man in history who claim to be God. I do not believe in a religions, creeds, or doctrines. I do not attend church and I do not believe in Christian doctrines who claims Jesus will burn us. I just believe in the words spoken by a man who claim to be God. It is that simple. He was a good man. Jesus is the only evidence of God. There is nothing else.

        • consultgtf says:

          The coming of Messiah was believed from the old testament that,
          The Messiah will be a descendent of David? St. Joesph was descendent of David not Mary.Jesus was conceived by the power of the holy spirit?
          Jesus life, full time is not captured in the Bible, only His birth, next at 12 years in the temple, than it moves directly to 30 years, for his baptism? How? Why?
          In parallel we his cousin who was living only in desert, and asking the world to repent and change as the axe is already kept at the root, (mind you not on the leaves!)
          But Jesus ate good food and DRANK WINE like any other human, while John the baptist ate, Locusts and DRANK honey, like a sage?
          Jesus started preaching only after his 30 years, but in common man’s language, that was real USP.
          Jesus could control his senses and live a life pleasing to our FATHER,
          Jesus is the not only the Son of God? but we are also his Sons and Daughters!
          If Jesus was the only Son of God! in Human terms? (forgive GTF) who is the mother God?
          Jesus could not have died for our sins, as we believe he resurrected on the third day? Then how did he undergo the pain agony of hell for you and me, and FOR THE GENERATIONS AFTER AD 33 (this death) till date?
          If dying on the cross is the only criteria then, John the Baptist head was cut?
          It was St.Paul who really spread Christianity, followed by Constantin, who brought the concept of Trinity.
          God is God, but we want a easy going God to live a easy going life without a punishing God, so we brought in Jesus as God, is this very similar to the Isrealities who made many Gods (my apologies), we are the lost generations, not LAST generation, We have to undergo the pain and sufferings as our GTF had warned during Moses, in Exodus time itself,
          “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.(now worldly pleasures)
          3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me. (But, we are still slaves to many gods like, loan EMI’s, Gold, Women/men, fame, Earthly materials, so on…)
          4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, PUNISHING the children for the SINS of the PARENTS to the third and fourth generation of those who HATE ME,6 but showing LOVE to a THOUSAND generations of those who love me and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

          This is GTF (God Thee Father), though we know this from our childhood days, and we were very obedient, but now we know the world better, how our heart pumps blood for kilometers and that too without rest for second for our life time, our eyes can see! our ears can hear! our nose can smell!…

          He created us, not for sake of creating but you can see the intricacy in HIS creation of a matter eg.Atom, then an organ eg.Cell, both are unique?

          Let us understand this basic truth, NOT to worship other gods and put our children and grand children into problems, from which they can never come out, meanwhile they will create more problems for coming generations!

          GTF SAVE US!

    • consultgtf says:

      This bet seems to be worth taking, as I lose nothing in living a moral life not hurting others otherwise I have to either covet, kill, forsake, worst of all, I have to either deny God or do something against what He has commanded…
      but believing in one Man, Jesus is the obstacle as He was a Human who was born and died like any other human instead putting our entire belief in our Creator is the really worthy!
      As He created us with a definite plan, anyway we all have go back to Him in our Afterlife is the real catch! Then what can stop us to live a life worthy of our Creator?

    • toby says:

      One cannot choose to believe or NOT believe. Belief is what comes from considering the evidence. The rational response is to withhold belief where none is warranted. Atheism is the rational response to unsubstantiated god claims.

  8. consultgtf says:

    If we were to all accept Pascal’s Wager, and give ourselves over to God and the Bible without question, and we are all wrong, what then?

    Sir, what can happen with this, we all would have lived happily and in peace!

    What would have been wrong with this living style?

    We as humans are still trying to find that one mantra, which will unveil, the mystery, to live happily, in contentment, then do we call as slaves?
    This was reason for Eve to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree, so after these many years we have not learn from our mistake committed by our illiterate grand mother!
    Same mistake, so same punishment, so again chased away from his mercy and protection?

    Are we living even for a single second happily? Even If we live, either it will be a mirage and illusion.

    We are/were thinking that, why should we be a slave to someone, who created us? but now…

    We are slaves to Tom Dick and Harry, like loans, lust, fame and many more…
    So instead of being a child to only one master, we are now slave to many now! and don’t realise!

    • DanD says:

      Let’s see, depending on which sect you believed in: We would have to stone all homosexuals and anyone who divorces and remarries. Women would not be allowed to work outside of the home, or wear pants. Children would be killed for disrespecting their parents.

      And that’s just Christianity by itself. If you also notice, quite a bit of conflict in the world today is between Christian and Muslim, Hindu and Sikh, or even within faiths, Sunni and Shi’ite.

      So why would all of those people settle on your particular god, and even if they did, how does that help?

  9. Ra4011 says:

    A Refutation of Pascal’s Wager.

    Pascal’s wager states that “Even if the existence of God could not be determined through reason, a rational person should wager as though God exists, because one living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose.”
    The basic assumption of this argument is that there is only one God on offer to be worshiped. However, as is quite obviously the case, there are many, many gods present in the woodwork, many of whom appear to get rather miffed if you worship other deities. As a consequence, worshiping one god in particular could get you in one whole lot of strife if a god or gods actually exist and you opted for the wrong one! Being torn asunder or tortured for eternity could hardly be termed a gain. Furthermore members of some particular faith groups have a penchant for happily slaughtering members of other faiths; so whether deities exist or not you could still find yourself on the wrong end of a pointy stick! As for ‘nothing to lose’; the restrictions and the requirements placed upon individuals by many religious organizations and theocratic governments, end up severely curtailing ones civil rights and personal freedoms (not to mention having to dress up in weird togs). If no gods exist this is a major, unnecessary; loss indeed.
    Ra 4011.

    • Daniela says:

      Believing one of the many gods is better than believing no god. There is nothing in the civil liberty an atheist can do that a theist can’t do.

  10. Mushet says:

    Response to your claim on your “500 questions” website, on Pascal’s Wager.

    1 God is holy. Humans are born spiritually-dead sinners since Adam sinned, and are therefore no different than Satan in our core fallen nature.
    The only difference between fallen man and the fallen angels is that in His mercy God allows fallen man to have a choice through faith. The fallen
    angels cannot place trust/faith/belief in Christ because they directly saw Him in His unveiled glory and directly saw the spiritual
    realm. This cannot be said of any human being in our core nature. Furthermore, the Lord Jesus Christ died for humans, and not for angels. They had their choice;
    the ones who chose to obey and not rebel stayed with God, the ones who chose to rebel rebelled and are forever confirmed in their wickedness; the holy angels
    are forever confirmed in their obedience to Christ/God.

    2 What options does the holy God have? He could have chosen to create nobody, but He wanted to create a race of people
    who would freely choose to love and serve Him out of free will choice. God Himself knows all things because He is outside of time.
    He did not want to create boring pre programmed robots who would serve Him without truly desiring to. God is satisfied in and of Himself,
    the Trinity, and God is love, so He decided to create beings who would be loved by Him and who would return His love.
    With this comes the “risk” that if they can truly choose to love Him and trust in Him
    they can also choose to not love Him. God can do and create anything except that which goes
    against His nature. God cannot lie and God cannot fail. God cannot create a true logical impossibility.
    God cannot create another God because by definition He is God and He is infinite. God cannot sin.
    God cannot create a square circle because such a thing is a logical impossibility. God cannot therefore
    create a being who has free will that cannot also choose against Him. If you get one you get the other.
    God knew this and God decided it was more valuable to have this than to have robots. He already
    has robots of that sort in the form of trees and plants and microorganisms and other creatures that
    blindly serve Him as pre programmed biological robots. Even animals make decisions but are not held accountible
    like we are. God created us knowing exactly what would happen. Look at it as a quality issue.
    I would rather have 1 or 10 really excellent, super quality watches or pocket knives, than
    100 or 1000 low quality, crappy watches or pocket knives. God would rather have a small group of
    people who love Him and trust in Him than a vast large mass of people who don’t, and He will win
    always in the end. He will get the glory for every person He made. He will either get the glory by
    showing His mercy and grace in them, for the saved and the holy angels, and, He will get the glory
    from the persons who reject Him and the angels who rejected Him from His justice being poured onto them
    in the form of endless concious eternal torment in Hell.
    God won’t annihilate them out of existence because the soul and spirit exist forever.
    God gives you the freedom. God is love and He won’t force you into Heaven. All you have to do is believe
    on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved forever. If you so choose to reject Him, ‘
    God will still get the glory as you are forever burning in the lake of fire.

    3 The argument from consequences issue; if the consequences are real, then your entire argument against
    Pascal’s wager fails. My only possible problem with that wager from a Christian perspective is that it
    is almost asking unsaved people to “bet on God” instead of truly trusting in Christ.
    That aside, the wager is very strong. Firstly, I have examined the claims of paganism and Islam and Hinduism, Buddhism
    and all other philosophies, faiths, and belief systems. They all fail for lack of Biblical prophecy such as
    the hundreds of prophecies about Jesus Christ and others; history revealed before it happened.
    These false religions lack prophecy and they also lack real grace. Only Biblical Christianity
    is based on grace: God doing the work of salvation for us. That alone proves the Bible is true and they
    are all false because they are based on the impossible idea of humans earning and working their way to
    salvation or paradise and sinners cannot do this. The true faith must be based wholly on God’s grace when it
    comes to eternal salvation and that is Biblical Christianity.
    Islam and the Koran are proven false by the wicked behaviour of Muhammad its alleged founder who
    molested nine year old Aisha, and murdered, raped, stole, and broke all Ten Commandments of God, and
    who’s koran is full of true contradictions such as saying a Samaritan helped Moses when Samaritans did
    not exist until centuries AFTER Moses was alive, and, his attacking the claims Jesus Christ made
    of Himself verified in the New Testament about His death burial and resurrection from the dead.
    Thus your only choice is Atheism or Christianity and Biblical Christianity wins.

    God does not use the irresistible nor the indisputible. God, in order to preserve human free will choice
    has chosen to provide just enough evidence for the one who has a humble open heart to Him, such as Bible prophecy
    and other things, but, conceals Himself from us just enough to preserve free choice.
    This is why for example, God does not reveal things like the existence of microbes and electrons in the Bible,
    though He does in the sense that He said the world is made of invisible things: Hebrews 11:3
    Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    See how it works? God revealed there the secrets discovered 2000 years later by atomic physics and particle
    physics but He made sure not to reveal too much, to preserve your choice.
    God won’t answer atheists’ wishes such as causing Scripture verses to appear in the sky
    and do miracles at your command because that would take away your free will choice. This is a mercy
    because then you would be like the devils, you could not have faith.
    That is also why noone in Hell can be saved. Once the soul leaves the body the person sees the
    spiritual realm directly and knows all of this is true and it is too late. There is no repentence possible
    when you can do nothing but turn in one direction. Repentence and faith only work when you can choose
    not to repent and not have faith. That is why Satan cannot repent.
    Basically, God provides you with both the eternal life line and enough rope to hang yourself,
    depending on how you choose to use it.

    Basically, either you are a struggling Christian and need to get back in fellowship with Jesus Christ,
    or you are unsaved and need to trust in Jesus Christ and be saved.

Leave a reply (but please keep it related to the topic)

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s